How can we bring more users to the Rosetta project?

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Profile David E K
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Message 39962 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 18:36:10 UTC

Thunderbox,

I'm sure no one would object to a better looking, less cluttered site, as long as the functionality is not reduced. If you take a look at the boinc php code (you can download it from their web site), the project specific, look and feel, code is in the form of header and footer functions and css. Keep in mind, much of the text has been translated by volunteers and we'd like to keep the translation functionality and of course the other nice boinc features like UOTD, the News items, etc. Some of the other boinc project web sites look great in my opinion.

Your idea of the comptetion scripts would be great for all projects using boinc. It would be nice to generalize it and work with the boinc developers to include it with boinc.
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Profile Gerry Rough
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Message 40022 - Posted: 29 Apr 2007, 2:58:17 UTC
Last modified: 29 Apr 2007, 2:58:45 UTC

I think it would be a great idea as well, though I could not help the way I would like. There are a couple of ideas that myself and others have discussed in the past many moons and many suns ago that might help, especially the Rosetta Banner that was talked about to spruce things up on the home page. The Rosetta Banner was discussed here, and the Rosetta Desktop image idea was discussed here. Hope this helps

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Message 40387 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 23:49:04 UTC

David Baker says: "I thought you might be interested in hearing about some of the disease related work we are doing" and goes on to list some interesting projects in https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/rah_medical_relevance.php

But then the shocker: "projects are not currently running on BOINC because we don't yet have an efficient queuing system"

I would feel that I was misleading others into running rosetta knowing this, and I am sure some others would as well, as not everyone is clear as to the current status of the project.

I feel the funding and research focus be on fixing the "queuing system" and other issues that are stopping the rosetta project from doing the real disease related work.

Or is this not the real object of the project?


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Profile Keith E. Laidig
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Message 40390 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 1:42:21 UTC - in response to Message 40387.  
Last modified: 6 May 2007, 1:43:16 UTC

But then the shocker: "projects are not currently running on BOINC because we don't yet have an efficient queuing system"


I think David was saying that we don't have ALL of our projects running on BOINC. What is running now IS valuable research!

We've tended to use BOINC to tackle our more mature lines of research with more mature code - so as to avoid mis-using the contributions of the BOINC community. The last thing we want to do is waste your contributions on shoddy code or poorly/incorrectly implemented algorithms!

For newer projects and their more experimental codes we use our local resources. We have invested a significant amount of money over the past five years into the resources here in Seattle. This is what we apply to code development, algorithmic testing, new ideas, and exotic projects. Only after we are confident that the resources would be well spent do we submit it to BOINC.

The specific issue is one of data management: How do we create a work flow system that is robust enough to handle the wide variety of different research problems as well as handle the stupendous amount of data that is returned from BOINC? This is what we're working on today...

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Message 40425 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 13:56:32 UTC - in response to Message 40390.  

For newer projects and their more experimental codes we use our local resources. We have invested a significant amount of money over the past five years into the resources here in Seattle.

Hence Keith's RAC of 120k+!
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Profile Keith E. Laidig
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Message 40440 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 16:31:17 UTC - in response to Message 40425.  

For newer projects and their more experimental codes we use our local resources. We have invested a significant amount of money over the past five years into the resources here in Seattle.

Hence Keith's RAC of 120k+!


My climb up the BOINC lists are going to be short lived. We're just finishing up a burn in of our newest super-cluster and will open it up to the scientists this coming week. Once they take over my score will drop like a stone.

I hate not having our computers working so I use BOINC to soak up every idle CPU cycle here as well. No idle CPU cycles around here!

Once things settle down I'll update the technical details of everything so that those of you who might be interested can see how we do it here in the Baker Lab - for BOINC and more generally at our datacenters in the Seattle area.

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Message 40603 - Posted: 9 May 2007, 20:11:50 UTC - in response to Message 12073.  

There is a lot of information locked up in these forums. Developer reports, work unit descriptions, and rosetta client information.

We need to aggregate this information so that common users to the rosetta project can get informed easily. It takes a lot of patience to read through these multiple forums and threads.

I suggest an integrated wiki with the main page so that all of us can contribute together to make the project seem more active and alive. A wiki would also be a great reference that would reduce the number of redundant threads on these forums.
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Message 40635 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 7:56:51 UTC

would reduce the number of redundant threads on these forums.

The best place to hide secret information is on a page called "FAQ".
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Message 40666 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 18:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 40635.  

The best place to hide secret information is on a page called "FAQ".


Don't you see, even the FAQ is a forum thread.

Forums are for discussion, not make-shift web pages. If the question is how to bring more users in, then the answer would be foremost to improve the presentation.
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Message 40700 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 8:50:21 UTC

I wasn't disputing what you said in general, but as a veteran of many boards across many subjects, having a Wiki, FAQ, embedded encyclopedia with all the worlds knowledge, etc., will not stop people asking their question on the boards. It is therefore I only quoted that part of the message.

People are lazy, they don't want to look for information, they want the information to come to them.
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Profile Keith E. Laidig
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Message 40711 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 14:43:55 UTC - in response to Message 40700.  


I agree w/ you. We, as a group, don't have a great deal of time to figure out how to best do this. Can you provide guidance to a project that has done one or more of these things well so that we can avoid re-inventing the wheel? I'd appreciate it!

Thanks,

-KEL

I wasn't disputing what you said in general, but as a veteran of many boards across many subjects, having a Wiki, FAQ, embedded encyclopedia with all the worlds knowledge, etc., will not stop people asking their question on the boards. It is therefore I only quoted that part of the message.

People are lazy, they don't want to look for information, they want the information to come to them.



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Message 40733 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 19:40:06 UTC - in response to Message 40603.  

There is a lot of information locked up in these forums. Developer reports, work unit descriptions, and rosetta client information.

We need to aggregate this information so that common users to the rosetta project can get informed easily. It takes a lot of patience to read through these multiple forums and threads.

I suggest an integrated wiki with the main page so that all of us can contribute together to make the project seem more active and alive. A wiki would also be a great reference that would reduce the number of redundant threads on these forums.


Hmm yes basicly that is because of boinc software has a button to jump to this forums. What if it jumped to wiki page instead, or have a choice for a user forum and project updates and news forum.

I think most of us want to see project news informative schience news (want to know what we are actualy crunching, I never got a clue about what i actual crunch for what purpose this molecule would be used.

The program itself should have a link like, you crunching HepapotXX345 (It's alway an unspeakable name) And then jump to a wiki page describing why scientist want to know about this particulair molecule.
It could be a few small lines of text, perhaps one page, not a huge scientific paper as most of us are not scientist. But we do like to know what we do here..

Perhaps do mass mailing when some scientist create breaktrough based on this, I found docter Bob's journal verry intresting but he doesnt write that much. It is not that bad to give users some information in return, science is based on funding, this science is based on a lot of free CPU power funding, so why not give something in return?


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Message 40751 - Posted: 12 May 2007, 3:33:14 UTC

I think the bast way to attract new users to rosetta is to make cpu optimized clients !
Beacose of this i am using rosetta only when seti is down !
Alot of ppl just love the feeling that theyr machines are used 100% in an efficient and optimized way !
At least for me this is why i am leaving Rosetta and go back to seti as quick as their server is back online !
I simply hate to see that a 3Ghz p4 is taking the same time as my Core duo 2 3.6 ghz to crunch a unit !
In seti the time goes down by half when using sse3 client !
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Message 40752 - Posted: 12 May 2007, 3:43:36 UTC - in response to Message 40751.  
Last modified: 12 May 2007, 3:44:58 UTC

I simply hate to see that a 3Ghz p4 is taking the same time as my Core duo 2 3.6 ghz to crunch a unit !
In seti the time goes down by half when using sse3 client !


Alex, I respect your views. However, I am not sure you are aware, but all Rosetta units crunch for a user set amount of time. You can set a WU to run from 1 hour to 24 hours. The type of CPU does not matter, the WU will crunch for however long you set it.

What the difference is, is the number of models (or decoys) that the CPU's produce. You will find that a Core 2 Duo would produce many more models than a 3.4Ghz P4.

If you knew that already, that's cool, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the difference.

Thanks,

Joel
P.S. Thanks for your spare CPU cycles while Seti is down.

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Message 40861 - Posted: 12 May 2007, 21:05:48 UTC

ALEX, Joel has it right, tasks are variable length. So, they keep adding more models on until they reach the runtime preference. Credit here is issued for actual work completed. You will note that your Core 2 receives significantly more credit per 10,000 seconds of CPU time. This is because it is completing more models in that time, and credit it based on the number of completed models. The amount per model varies and is specific to each different type of task, and is based on the average time it took others to do models on the same task.

I hope you will agree that discovering how proteins work in nature is a valueable endeaver for the human race. To answer the "can we cure it?" question will have immediate impact on mankind, even if we still are asking the "are we alone?" question.
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Message 40980 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 22:49:12 UTC

Folding@Home gets free/wide publicity from Yahoo! Games, re the PS/3. Seems to suggest the effort may be worth it to (ask for Sony'ds help to) port Rosetta over to the PS/3. And if Bill Gates will help with the xBox, then even better, but I thought another member posted something saying MS was also going over to F@H.

Is there a reason why F@H is getting all the attention, and Rosetta is not?

An experimental science project reaches epic proportions

...scientists at Stanford University are concerned with a very different kind of battle - the fight against incurable diseases.

The university's Folding@home project focuses on protein folding, a chemical process that may hold the keys to unlocking the mysteries of diseases like Alzheimer's, Cystic Fibrosis, Hodgkin's and various other cancers. The team has created a program that simulates the nearly infinite number of ways proteins can fold, a system that requires a massive amount of computational power.

Instead of taxing resources by building a battalion of supercomputers to crunch the data, the Folding@home team decided to tap into the vast quantity of lonely home computers in the wild. And it worked -- since the program's inception in October of 2000, hundreds of thousands of ordinary folks have lent their computers' unused processing power to the project, effectively creating one of the largest distributed computing networks in the world.

But once kindhearted PS3 owners got involved, the numbers went from solid to staggering.

Folding@home was tucked into a recent PS3 firmware update as a small icon found in the Network section of the console's front end, allowing users to willingly join the program in a few quick clicks. It has since blossomed, with over 250,000 registered PS3 owners donating enormous amounts of spare power in the name of philanthropic science.

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Message 41045 - Posted: 15 May 2007, 23:42:06 UTC - in response to Message 40440.  

Once things settle down I'll update the technical details of everything so that those of you who might be interested can see how we do it here in the Baker Lab - for BOINC and more generally at our datacenters in the Seattle area.

Keith,

I understand you are busy. So, please don't over tax yourself to get us this information. However, I must say, it sounds interesting. I sit anxiously waiting for your post. ;-)

Thanks,

Joel
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Message 41125 - Posted: 18 May 2007, 16:09:17 UTC

Get the US government to offer tax refunds for companies (or money to universities) whose computers run certain distributed folding projects that are deemed to be a good investment.
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Profile Keith E. Laidig
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Message 41145 - Posted: 19 May 2007, 0:27:58 UTC - in response to Message 41045.  

Once things settle down I'll update the technical details of everything so that those of you who might be interested can see how we do it here in the Baker Lab - for BOINC and more generally at our datacenters in the Seattle area.

Keith,

I understand you are busy. So, please don't over tax yourself to get us this information. However, I must say, it sounds interesting. I sit anxiously waiting for your post. ;-)

Thanks,

Joel


Joel,

I'll get to this soon. Sorry for the delay...


-KEL

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Message 41317 - Posted: 22 May 2007, 20:05:18 UTC

Get the US government to offer tax refunds for companies (or money to universities) whose computers run certain distributed folding projects that are deemed to be a good investment.

Bad idea, was covered earlier in the thread.
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