Yes to be honest I would. :-)
The involvement of Dr. Baker keeps me hooked to reading and CRUNCHING Rosseta.
Regards
Masud.

Whoa! Anything that has US government/military associations on it, even the most tenuous link, will send crunchers flooding away from the project. You will need to be VERY careful here. The projects probably won't want that kind of association either.

That was exactly my thoughts. Whilst those who are live in the US may not mind too much, there are certainly crunchers in the rest of the world that would...

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Mats

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Life is limited. Death is a surety.

Doh!

I forgot to mention that I've been thinking along the lines that if I link up with the homeland security department, which I will be pushing for next semester when I finally graduate, I'm thinking I might decide to ask around to see if DHS might want to push for boinc crunchers on the theory that cures for diseases and other nasties that can be weaponized can be found much quicker if DHS pushes boinc as a national security issue that every American can help with, especially if they were pointed in the direction of the bio projects. Who knows where this will lead, but it might be interesting to see if a .gov department might consider pushing for it.

What we'd all be wondering, all of us who are not US citizens and are actually the majority of the planet, is whether the US and the DHS were pushing Rosetta because they want to use the tools in order to create their own immunity to their own nasty weapons rather than defend against other people's weapons.

The kind of thing you are thinking of, if applied to a particular project, would possibly attract domestic support but at the cost of most of its international support.

If it were this project, would that outcome be good for the Rosetta project, or for the Bakerlab?

But I feel impelled to say more.

More importantly from my point of view than the loss of support for that project, you would be spoiling one of the things that does gain your country genuine international respect. Not the grudging respect that comes from force of arms, but the warm respect I feel when I think of your country's traditional generosity.

It is your national generosity that underlies the Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing, that uses your taxpayers money to create a structure that anyone anywhere can use for their own distributed computing project.

(Further back it was the same spirit that led that same university to create a free quasi-Unix long before the same idea occurred to Mr Torvalds, and the same spirit that led others to start the free software movement)

It is the same generous attitude that leads the HHMI to fund Rosetta, and that led Dr Baker to set up a project that donates its results to the benefit of humankind rather than just to one corporation or just to your own country.

This is the aspect of American culture that I, as someone outside your country, admire. It is this that gains my support.

Turn the same project over to the fear-of-foreigners attitude that (rightly or wrongly) seems to those if us outside the US to underlie much of what the DHS is about, and you simultaneously lose my support for that project and remove from the world one more thing for which I respect your nation.

Would that really be a good thing for the US of A, all things considered?

Just a thought...

River~~

Doh!

I forgot to mention that I've been thinking along the lines that if I link up with the homeland security department, which I will be pushing for next semester when I finally graduate, I'm thinking I might decide to ask around to see if DHS might want to push for boinc crunchers on the theory that cures for diseases and other nasties that can be weaponized can be found much quicker if DHS pushes boinc as a national security issue that every American can help with, especially if they were pointed in the direction of the bio projects. Who knows where this will lead, but it might be interesting to see if a .gov department might consider pushing for it.

I think it best to rethink my idea. It seems this thread is beginning to degenerate into a flamewar. Best to stop before it goes further.

Cheers,

Gerry

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I see no flames?

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Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

I see no flames?

What I objected to was the tone. The first and last paragraphs are over the top, especially the first if you look at the presumtions, but it really is the tone of it. I could have defended America, but that would only degenerate into something more personal. Knowing where it will likely end up, it is better to stop it before it starts.

No, by the way, I don't think it was intentional. River has never shown those tendencies in the past. But me defending against unfair charges just would have gotten into personal or national pride teritiory, and that is where true flamewars start. And that makes my point.

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I see no flames?

I agree 100%.....River's responses are always very diplomatic, informative and well considered.

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What I objected to was the tone. The first and last paragraphs are over the top, especially the first if you look at the presumtions, but it really is the tone of it.

hi Gerry,

I am sorry you found my post unpleasant in tone.

I tried to include a mix of the genuine admiration I have for your country and the (sadly) equal degree of fear I have about the motives of your leaders, (and that means not only the leaders from one party by the way).

We clearly differ in the underlying presumptions and in the overlying feelings. Many people (I think the international majority) share both the admiration and the fear that I expressed, and many feel honestly perplexed (as I do) by the paradoxes engendered by holding those contrasting feelings.

The perplexity will not go away if we only ever mention the nice half of it.

One thing on which we are totally united is that we do not want this to degenerate into a flame war. Therefore I feel this is not the place to explore these perplexities further.

River~~

I want to collect important organisations in Belgium and The Netherlands who do research, oraganisations who help and inform people about their diseases and so on. That would be for cancer, alzheimer, HIV,... .

Doesn't have Rosetta a sort of publicity folder ? Otherwise I can drop all the emails from those organisations and Rosetta can email them personally ?

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Doesn't have Rosetta a sort of publicity folder ?

That would be a good idea. Would allow Rosetta users to do some evangelizing of the project much more easily.

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[quote]Doesn't have Rosetta a sort of publicity folder ?

That would be a good idea. Would allow Rosetta users to do some evangelizing of the project much more easily.
[/quo rosetta could use some computer time.............http://au.news.yahoo.com/070110/20/120rq.html

Yes, that would be a good idea.

For instance a PDF with a brief explanation of distributed computing (focus on boinc) and the scientific goals of rosetta. Furthermore there should be presspics.

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Dr Baker could get some of his fellow scientist to come on board with their home computers if he could get some space in one of the journals he publishes in or reads.

Don't know if JAMA or any others along that line would do a short story or take a "advertisement" promoting BOINC and Rosetta.

Probally time for the AP and UPI or local papers to get another story like the one that got me here.

Perhaps the Gates foundation webmaster could put a link or the foundation could put something in their publication about Rosetta.

Isn't HHI or someone like that also a major user of our findings?

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I want to collect important organisations in Belgium and The Netherlands who do research, oraganisations who help and inform people about their diseases and so on. That would be for cancer, alzheimer, HIV,... .

Doesn't have Rosetta a sort of publicity folder ? Otherwise I can drop all the emails from those organisations and Rosetta can email them personally ?

Maybe a volunteer could put something like this together from the web site and other materials we could provide? I agree this would be useful, and this is definitely an area we can use help in!

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So what do we want for a publicity folder? Drawing from what people have already said, we want there to be available;

• General Explanation of Distributed Computing
  
• Explanation of what Rosetta is doing and where it is
  
• Information on diseases that are caused by mutations in proteins
  
• Pictures of screensaver, maybe D. Baker, any other ideas?
  
• Informational videos, such as the new one from laurelin and perhaps the ones already on the 'About' page
  

This might be the completely wrong idea, I'm not sure. If you want to add stuff, remove stuff, tear it apart and start again feel free ;D

Stwato

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*Informational videos, such as the new one from laurelin and perhaps the ones already on the 'About' page
[/list]

This might be the completely wrong idea, I'm not sure. If you want to add stuff, remove stuff, tear it apart and start again feel free ;D

Stwato[/quote]


I think you've got all the topics covered there. I think if its done as an expanding document with expanding sections then it can be sent to anyone, whether they're interested in the sceince or the IT side, without overwhelming either with info.

Here's how I was going to structure mine when i started one a few months back:

* Brief overview of the project, DC and the project team (Not much beyond contents page and quick links for those that just want to download and install etc.

* Project Aims
- Quick and cheap structural determination of proteins
- Determination and effects of protein interactions (i.e. drugs)
- Novel drugs
- Industrial uses such as improved enzymes to reduce energy requirements
- Why so much computer power is needed

* The Science
- Start with Amino Acid sequences through traditional route of xray chrystallography etc vs Rosetta
- Lauralin's video

* The Software
- Quick and easy installation - install and forget if desired
- BOINC & client programs
- Overview of security issues / FAQs / solutions
- Installation Guide
- Advanced Setups
- Troubleshooting links (Forum, FAQ, Wiki)


It all needs expanding on though...

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I think if its done as an expanding document with expanding sections then it can be sent to anyone, whether they're interested in the sceince or the IT side, without overwhelming either with info.

I think that a complete document with all the information in it is a good idea but I think we should give access to the different parts seperately as well. This means that people don't have to download everything when they only want to read one section.

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So what do we want for a publicity folder? Drawing from what people have already said, we want there to be available;

• General Explanation of Distributed Computing
  
• Explanation of what Rosetta is doing and where it is
  
• Information on diseases that are caused by mutations in proteins
  
• Pictures of screensaver, maybe D. Baker, any other ideas?
  
• Informational videos, such as the new one from laurelin and perhaps the ones already on the 'About' page
  

This might be the completely wrong idea, I'm not sure. If you want to add stuff, remove stuff, tear it apart and start again feel free ;D

Stwato

someone should tell cnn of rosetta they do a story on cancer soon.....http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/01/12/armstrong.emails/index.html

So what do we want for a publicity folder? Drawing from what people have already said, we want there to be available;

• General Explanation of Distributed Computing
  
• Explanation of what Rosetta is doing and where it is
  
• Information on diseases that are caused by mutations in proteins
  
• Pictures of screensaver, maybe D. Baker, any other ideas?
  
• Informational videos, such as the new one from laurelin and perhaps the ones already on the 'About' page
  

This might be the completely wrong idea, I'm not sure. If you want to add stuff, remove stuff, tear it apart and start again feel free ;D

Stwato

someone should tell cnn of rosetta they do a story on cancer soon.....http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/01/12/armstrong.emails/index.html

Greg - Probally a CNN science feature, this is a little to heavy of material for the quicky that CNN does on alot of stories. Might drop this of at CBS for 60 mins to do a short segment on. But then again this is a tough sell to most of the general public.

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It's been a few years since I was studying Communications Electronics the in the Seattle area - but I've had a trip to the KIMO studios downtown. For on air t.v. time, perhaps contacting the local television stations - and point out what we're doing, our CASP7 results, the Gates foundation investment in Rosetta for HIV research, and discussion about our progress with creating a vaccine for HIV. If it can get reported on locally, then there's a better chance that folks like CNN will broadcast a story on Rosetta. (For a writeup on CNN, perhaps contacting the medical/technology folks will spark interest, as well.)

And if it's too technical for the likes of KIMO - perhaps we could get in touch with Bill Nye, the Science Guy; offer to not camp out in front of his office chanting, "High Fiving White Guys!" (From a Seattle comedy program he was associated with for years.) for a week, and see if he's interested in doing a segment on Rosetta@Home.

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Is that KOMO or KIRO or you mixing up KING5? I used to live in Seattle and don't know any KIMO as I lived there for nearly 15 years.

Another approach is trying to get PBS to pick up on the topic a bit as well.
Use KCTS as a local approach to get into national.

It's been a few years since I was studying Communications Electronics the in the Seattle area - but I've had a trip to the KIMO studios downtown. For on air t.v. time, perhaps contacting the local television stations - and point out what we're doing, our CASP7 results, the Gates foundation investment in Rosetta for HIV research, and discussion about our progress with creating a vaccine for HIV. If it can get reported on locally, then there's a better chance that folks like CNN will broadcast a story on Rosetta. (For a writeup on CNN, perhaps contacting the medical/technology folks will spark interest, as well.)

And if it's too technical for the likes of KIMO - perhaps we could get in touch with Bill Nye, the Science Guy; offer to not camp out in front of his office chanting, "High Fiving White Guys!" (From a Seattle comedy program he was associated with for years.) for a week, and see if he's interested in doing a segment on Rosetta@Home.

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