How many new users from FaD and SETI Classic closing?

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Message 4528 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 4:58:49 UTC - in response to Message 4525.  

if there are features that the other boinc projects have that we should include here, let us know.


Look at Einstein; instead of the "Questions and Problems" section, they have a Help Desk area, using the _standard_ boards rather than the 1-question-multiple-answer mess.


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Message 4530 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 5:41:17 UTC - in response to Message 4482.  
Last modified: 28 Nov 2005, 6:05:17 UTC

Any volunteers for putting together the help guide? If anybody can put together something that people agree is useful, we can post it on the home page. as far as the message boards, we are a bit limited by what BOINC provides; if there are features that the other boinc projects have that we should include here, let us know. thanks, David


If you're looking for a simple Windows "how to" for getting Rosetta up and running, I can maybe put something together. Having got my "farm" going, I've gone through the install / attach process several times, so that really only leaves account creation and settings.

The other thing that occurs to me is to try to make it a "wiki style" "living" document. Meaning if anyone has comments or thoughts on how to improve it, there should be an easy process to get them in.

If you give me 24 hours or so (i.e. late Monday evening PST 11/28), and then check http://www.scruffy.org/rosetta.html I should have something online. It won't be directly editable, scruffy.org's web server isn't that bright. Better would be to collect comments in a thread somewhere here, and then have me integrate them.
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Message 4532 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 5:52:29 UTC - in response to Message 4525.  

Any volunteers for putting together the help guide? If anybody can put together something that people agree is useful, we can post it on the home page. as far as the message boards, we are a bit limited by what BOINC provides; if there are features that the other boinc projects have that we should include here, let us know. thanks, David


You could have a little talk with Rytis from Primegrid. He included emoticons in the BOINC forum.

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Message 4534 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 6:30:59 UTC - in response to Message 4530.  

The other thing that occurs to me is to try to make it a "wiki style" "living" document. Meaning if anyone has comments or thoughts on how to improve it, there should be an easy process to get them in.


I can add whatever you come up with to the BOINC Wiki, if I can figure out how... Paul D. Buck is unavailable right now, but I'm sure he wouldn't have any problems with that.

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Message 4551 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 9:55:58 UTC

If people want to add things to the Wiki that is possible. Those that do have material created can usually find someone to post it ... there are 25 or so people that have access.

Those that are interested in editing the Wiki I am interested in meeting, however, just saying you want to is not enough. I have gotten a lot of "I want to" and very few samples of what people would add ...

Since I don't want to open it up for the world to deface because someone has a gripe with me (or another editor) and the provisioner I use, well, let us just say that we don't want to overlaod the servers.
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Message 4561 - Posted: 28 Nov 2005, 14:27:07 UTC - in response to Message 4408.  

It really is exciting how many people have joined in the past few days! Is there anything we can do to recruit a larger fraction of the people coming over to BOINC? Please--all of you--spread the word!!


Good projects gets their users automatically. The news will spread very fast in teams...
As I can speak for my team, what's very important:
1/ A clear homepage, with a good explanation of what the program do, which organisation is behind, what are the results, what is already archived, etc.
If there are some nice graphs and pictures that can make it more clear, it's always a plus.
If possible this info on 2 niveaus:
* For people who want to know what the project is doing, but who haven't a technical and medical background. So a simple explanation is wanted for them.
* For those who do have a more medical background, and want to know more details

2/ Good support is also important. This on 2 sides:
* support for the client
* News of the results etc. People who donate their cpu power to a project want to know what happens with it. (cfr TSC/D2OL is dying because of that, FaD was wonderful)

3/ A good community. You 'll never crunch alone :)
FaD had a very good forum and community. This is always a plus

4/ Nice statistics are also welcome. Graphs or some other "extra" info will also do the trick why people crunch for your project. Offcourse when you'll provide the data in downloadable files, users can make their own stats and graphics. (like it is with BOINC, and was with FaD)

5/ An uptime of 100% isn't possible, but when 75% of the time the client is idling because of no work or servers that are down, aren't positive to attrack or to keep users. (also a cfr TSC/D2OL)

As I can say: I'm crunching for some weeks for R@h (not for 100% of my power, this will be starting from half december ;)), and I have a good feeling that R@h will become a good project.
Keep up the good work David and Others

(ow yes, I more point: On this forum, please mark the project-people (David and others) a bit more clear, so new users can see faster who are the people in charge :)
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Message 5003 - Posted: 3 Dec 2005, 3:05:44 UTC - in response to Message 4499.  

if at all possable improve bbcode to include a section of smilies ......include a preview option alongside "post reply"

Smilies are being written into the forums in the BOINC development. They are comming sometime.


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Message 5056 - Posted: 3 Dec 2005, 20:47:31 UTC

I have submitted the code for emoticons from PrimeGrid to be checked in last week, however, no reply yet (I wonder if I'm ever getting it :-/).

Anyway, seeing that my team search fix (allows searching for team names not only from the start, but anywhere in the middle), although checked in, is not being adopted by the projects, it seems, it's going to be a long time we see the updates...
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Message 5081 - Posted: 4 Dec 2005, 4:06:28 UTC

If you're looking for a simple Windows "how to" for getting Rosetta up and running, I can maybe put something together. Having got my "farm" going, I've gone through the install / attach process several times, so that really only leaves account creation and settings.

The other thing that occurs to me is to try to make it a "wiki style" "living" document. Meaning if anyone has comments or thoughts on how to improve it, there should be an easy process to get them in.

If you give me 24 hours or so (i.e. late Monday evening PST 11/28), and then check http://www.scruffy.org/rosetta.html I should have something online. It won't be directly editable, scruffy.org's web server isn't that bright. Better would be to collect comments in a thread somewhere here, and then have me integrate them.


I'd like to add a bit to what's on your html.

Things to know before starting.
BOINC (Berkely Open Infrastructure for Network Computing), is a programme that uses your computer's idle time, with the high powered computers these days there is a lot of this idle time where the CPU (Central Processing Unit) is just twiddling it thumbs waiting for something to happen.

Rosetta@Home is an application that uses BOINC to access this idle time on your computer to do scientific research on proteins, the cause of some diseases, and the capacity to cure many more. [link to about rosetta] read more here [/link to about rosetta]

The Size of the Boinc download is ? The size of the Rosetta Application when first downloaded is ? The size of the rosetta WU's is ? The size of a Rosetta result is?

It is recommended that your computer(s) have at least 512MB of RAM, and that you do not swap Rosetta out of memory (there's a bug somewhere that's refusing to be found).

If your a bit of a tech head and are looking for a real minimum spec computer I've included this just for you :
[link to another thread]
On my computer with the current Work Units and BOINC 5.2.2 the memory requirements are, around 10 megabytes of RAM for boinc.exe (BOINC the actual programme),around 4 megabytes of RAM for boincmgr.exe (BOINC Manger)and around 86 Megabytes of RAM per CPU
Intel's Hyper Threaded computers are considered to have two CPU's, as are Dual Core. The Dual Core HT CPU's are considered to have 4, as are Xeon [I think] type CPU's. If you are running a multi CPU Xeon server then you will most likely have a lot of RAM, but it still may be worth considering.

AMD [need help here] Athlon XP are considered to have two [I think] CPU's as are the Dual Core machines.
[/link to another thread]


Step 1. Account Creation
...

[ OK, more later, I need to hit the sack now ]

How to access the leave Rosetta in memory option:
Rosetta@Home web site -> Returning Participants -> Your account-> Log in -> View or edit general preferences -> Edit preferences (down the bottom) -> Leave applications in memory while preempted? Check yes and click the update preferences button.

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Message 5095 - Posted: 4 Dec 2005, 10:55:53 UTC - in response to Message 5081.  

AMD [need help here] Athlon XP are considered to have two [I think] CPU's as are the Dual Core machines.


AMD Athlon/Duron/Sempron/Opteron have One CPU , Athlon64-X2 and Opteron-??(dual core's) have 2 CPU's etc... As do ALL none dualcore or HT (HyperThreading) Intel CPU's

So really the Intel HT enabled CPU's the exception so should be stated as such..


(side question, does Boinc actually start two on HT enabled computers, can this be stopped BUT not stopped for real Dual CPU/Cores ? Not having either of these combinations I cannot test)
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Message 5141 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 1:35:54 UTC - in response to Message 5095.  

AMD [need help here] Athlon XP are considered to have two [I think] CPU's as are the Dual Core machines.


AMD Athlon/Duron/Sempron/Opteron have One CPU , Athlon64-X2 and Opteron-??(dual core's) have 2 CPU's etc... As do ALL none dualcore or HT (HyperThreading) Intel CPU's

So really the Intel HT enabled CPU's the exception so should be stated as such..


(side question, does Boinc actually start two on HT enabled computers, can this be stopped BUT not stopped for real Dual CPU/Cores ? Not having either of these combinations I cannot test)


On my twin 2.4 xeon and several twin xeon's 1.6@3.2 the boinc only runs 1 per cpu.All are hyper threaded cpu's.I'd guess they don't run 2 per cpu with hyper threading,at least boinc didn't set these up that way.
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Message 5142 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 1:40:59 UTC - in response to Message 5141.  

On my twin 2.4 xeon and several twin xeon's 1.6@3.2 the boinc only runs 1 per cpu.All are hyper threaded cpu's.I'd guess they don't run 2 per cpu with hyper threading,at least boinc didn't set these up that way.


If HT is enabled in your OS (ie; Windows Task manager reports 4 CPUs) and the preference setting on the project website is to allow use of 4 CPUs (default is 2) then BOINC will indeed run 4 results at a time.

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Message 5144 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 2:18:59 UTC - in response to Message 5095.  


(side question, does Boinc actually start two on HT enabled computers, can this be stopped BUT not stopped for real Dual CPU/Cores ? Not having either of these combinations I cannot test)


i disabled HT on my P4 3GHhz machine since it was a detriment to running Fad and i had read somewhere the same thing for rosetta. it shows as only 1 cpu. i have a remote that has HT turned on and it shows up as 2 cpu's. as far as i can determine, it can't be stopped for my 4600+dual core. that is 2 cpu's.
not that i'd want to

i know we went thru this question at ud and at Fad, is there any advantage to running HT?

yo plum! you going to go into your rosetta settings and turn up the # of cpu's to a max of 4? just an experiment for the fluffanutter
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Message 5145 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 3:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 5144.  

i know we went thru this question at ud and at Fad, is there any advantage to running HT?


Haven't seen specifics on Rosetta, but on SETI and Einstein it's somewhere around 4-10% _overall_ improvement. Each result takes longer, but you finish two in 10% less time than you would have finished two with it turned off. You get a bigger gain if you're running multiple projects; maybe up to 40% if they don't compete for the same CPU resources... PrimeGrid and SETI, for example, one all integers, the other all floating point.

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Message 5150 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 5:23:29 UTC
Last modified: 5 Dec 2005, 5:24:18 UTC

On my twin 2.4 xeon and several twin xeon's 1.6@3.2 the boinc only runs 1 per cpu.All are hyper threaded cpu's.I'd guess they don't run 2 per cpu with hyper threading,at least boinc didn't set these up that way.


My p4 runs hyperthreading just fine with Rosetta, Einstein etc. You just need to set it up as Bill Michael pointed out.
e6600 quad @ 2.5ghz
2418 floating point
5227 integer

e6750 dual @ 3.71ghz
3598 floating point
7918 integer


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Message 5220 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 21:17:19 UTC

On my twin 2.4 xeon and several twin xeon's 1.6@3.2 the boinc only runs 1 per cpu.All are hyper threaded cpu's.I'd guess they don't run 2 per cpu with hyper threading,at least boinc didn't set these up that way.


If HT is enabled in your OS (ie; Windows Task manager reports 4 CPUs) and the preference setting on the project website is to allow use of 4 CPUs (default is 2) then BOINC will indeed run 4 results at a time.


So does that mean that 1 Xeon = 2 CPU's if HT is on ?

i disabled HT on my P4 3GHhz machine since it was a detriment to running Fad and i had read somewhere the same thing for rosetta. it shows as only 1 cpu. i have a remote that has HT turned on and it shows up as 2 cpu's. as far as i can determine, it can't be stopped for my 4600+dual core. that is 2 cpu's.


Instead of turning off HT it might be better to change your preferences so that boinc only uses one CPU. This would mean you get one faster CPU, though I think that HT as a Dual CPU configuration is better, based on no facts at all :)

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Message 5241 - Posted: 5 Dec 2005, 22:57:03 UTC
Last modified: 5 Dec 2005, 22:57:23 UTC

by hugothehermit
though I think that HT as a Dual CPU configuration is better, based on no facts at all :)


hughie, i like your thinking



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Message 5285 - Posted: 6 Dec 2005, 12:03:16 UTC

Turning on HT gives you 2 logical CPUs per physical CPU. You will not see 2x speeds though.

What you will normally see is 20-40% greater throughput at the expense of taking longer to process each work unit. If I recall correctly there is an example in the wiki under hyper-threading.
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