How many people are crunching Rosetta?

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Dusty

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Message 52451 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58:24 UTC

I've been scouring the Statistics pages trying to find the total number of people participating in Rosetta, but I've been unsuccessful. Would someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.
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Path7

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Message 52452 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 21:25:49 UTC - in response to Message 52451.  

I've been scouring the Statistics pages trying to find the total number of people participating in Rosetta, but I've been unsuccessful. Would someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Hello Mark J. Durstewitz,
You might (for example) look at: http://boincstats.com/stats/project_graph.php?pr=rosetta

Total Users: 194,508 Active Users: 50,007
I'm not sure these numbers are correct, but I think they are pointing in the right direction.

Have a nice day,
Path7.
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Message 52456 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 23:46:02 UTC

Dang nice RAC, Chief...

Welcome aboard !
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Michael G.R.

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Message 52457 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 0:26:53 UTC

Nice RAC indeed. Welcome!
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 52458 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 0:28:47 UTC

They use the data dumps from the projects to determine the numbers ... there is of course some fluctuation as some of us are intermittent in doing work ..., but the order of magnitude is reasonable ...

For me, the thing to take away from that number is that 75% of the people that tried Rosetta, left ...

to me the most depressing aspect of this is that *I* think that the project could improve on those numbers ... if only ... and there is a song about that I thing ...
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Dusty

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Message 52472 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 12:28:28 UTC - in response to Message 52458.  

That's pretty depressing. Out of all the available projects for BOINC, it seemed to me that Rosetta could do the most good.

I remember reading that prostate cancer would also be a future project for Rosetta. Having relatives with prostate cancer (and also a recent personal scare which turned out to be benign), I am hoping to be able to help out in that area as well.
-Mark

They use the data dumps from the projects to determine the numbers ... there is of course some fluctuation as some of us are intermittent in doing work ..., but the order of magnitude is reasonable ...

For me, the thing to take away from that number is that 75% of the people that tried Rosetta, left ...

to me the most depressing aspect of this is that *I* think that the project could improve on those numbers ... if only ... and there is a song about that I thing ...

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Dusty

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Message 52473 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 12:30:49 UTC - in response to Message 52456.  

Thanks, I feel welcome!!!

Dang nice RAC, Chief...

Welcome aboard !

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Message 52476 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 13:14:22 UTC

What Paul failed to point out was that the user rentension figures are basically the same for all BOINC projects.
http://boincstats.com/stats/project_graph.php?pr=bo&view=users

So, while I agree that projects can be run in a mannar that tends to retain more users, and that projects should always work to do so; I cannot take the assertion that 75% of the people became upset with Rosetta for some reason and left due to the way the project is run.

Indeed, the project has been out of beta for 2.5+ years and in that time, lots of people changed EMail addresses, and opened new accounts rather then changing old ones. The fact is, there's really no way to get an accurate count. But you can see by the record high TFLOPs rating on the homepage that people are coming to Rosetta.
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 52480 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 13:43:41 UTC - in response to Message 52472.  

That's pretty depressing. Out of all the available projects for BOINC, it seemed to me that Rosetta could do the most good.

Also look at WCG and Malaria another two that can have fairly immediate impacts.

What Paul failed to point out was that the user rentension figures are basically the same for all BOINC projects.


And that makes is somehow better? :)

Sorry, but, this is an issue I have been trying to get projects to wake up about because it is NOT as inevitable as it might seem, and the costs of addressing it are not as high as most people assume. The trouble is that projects are so focused on day-to-day minutia that they lose sight of long range 'self-help' that could start to turn this around.
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Dusty

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Message 52487 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 18:29:29 UTC - in response to Message 52480.  

I remember; I got help merging my old email address account with this new one, and I've had to rebuild systems and then merge results...

I understand that folks might bounce from project to project--particularly with limited resources to throw at each project. I played around with SETI for a while but decided that finding ET was not as helpful to humanity as finding a cure for cancer. I was enrolled in an Oxford cancer research program a few years back, but that research ended. With the advent of BOINC, it seems much easier to be able to divide resources, and I think that was a big step forward.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by " long range self help?"

That's pretty depressing. Out of all the available projects for BOINC, it seemed to me that Rosetta could do the most good.

Also look at WCG and Malaria another two that can have fairly immediate impacts.

What Paul failed to point out was that the user rentension figures are basically the same for all BOINC projects.


And that makes is somehow better? :)

Sorry, but, this is an issue I have been trying to get projects to wake up about because it is NOT as inevitable as it might seem, and the costs of addressing it are not as high as most people assume. The trouble is that projects are so focused on day-to-day minutia that they lose sight of long range 'self-help' that could start to turn this around.

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Message 52491 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 21:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 52487.  

I was enrolled in an Oxford cancer research program a few years back, but that research ended.


Would that have been United Devices (UD) - Think, or Find-a-Drug - Think?

I started on UD (I even won £60 in one of the UD monthly prize draws!), then moved to FaD, where most of my team (XPC) came from before arriving here.


With the advent of BOINC, it seems much easier to be able to divide resources, and I think that was a big step forward.

Couldn't agree more. A standard platform was a big step. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good and improving...

I'd also like to agree with both Paul and Mod.Sense re the retention of users. I think Rosetta could have a lot more users by simply communicating better (and maybe handling the politics of DC better - bet they weren't expecting politics when they were setting the project up!), but there is an inherent turnover with DC. I think users fall into four categories:

Those who understand at least one of the projects and join for that reason - high retention

Those who try it and like it, or at least don't mind/notice it, but don't really understand what they're donating - moderate retention

Those who are indifferent - low retention

Those who try it and don't like it - low retention

Those who try it and like the idea of it but then completely forget about it - retained until the OS is reinstalled or there's a problem with the DC project and it stops crunching.

OK, that's five, and they're not very well described, but i'd say that's a rough summary. I think the PS3 distribution model fits the lower demographics very well and would be better than the current model:

Find out about the client (therefore very small catchment), download it, install it, select projects...

PS3 F@H model:
Press option to join which is displayed somewhere pretty obvious (large catchment and very easy to join).

I think retention will always be a problem, but reducing the barriers to joining (i.e. some form of advertising) will increase the inflow, and improved communications will reduce the outflow.

I'd like to see them get a grad student or two on board who can spend some time on the boards and provide a link between the project and the crunchers, while having very little impact on the lab staff.
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Profile Paul D. Buck

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Message 52493 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 21:20:14 UTC - in response to Message 52487.  

Can you elaborate on what you mean by " long range self help?"

No one will thank you for this question ...

The easiest way I can think to answer your question is to tell you to read this thread in its entirety, then the follow on thread and, um, this post and watch this movie ...

The other thing you can do is to read my post log starting from about here and read forward from there (just subtract 10 from the number at the top and read back till you get bored...)


In the fastest terms since no one these days seems to want to understand anything, or even answer questions (ABC forum example);

1) BOINC is hard and boring ...
2) Projects retreat into what I call their "ivory tower" and concentrate only on today's problems
3) the environment is toxic and hostile

And when someone tries to raise issues/questions, the problem/fault is with the person asking the question and not with the object of the question.

The last post in the ABC thread is the person pointing out that I am a whiner and that this person cannot wait until I leave doing BOINC ... other critiques are that I am a LONG WINDED, non-specific, whiner ...

So, how do they do self help ... well, collaborate for one... the projects are not isolated. The actions of one idiot on ABC, SaH, or RaH can lose a participant for a number of projects. For one thing, the guy that has taken a dislike of me on ABC is likely to be on this project also ... and many other projects also ... and looking at his link, so he is ...

But one thing he did say is true, two years ago, I did stop doing BONC, I stopped for many reasons, among the reasons was the prevalence of people like him ... now, *MY* opinion, if he/she cared as much about BOINC and BOINC projects he/she would be doing all that was in his power to understand the other person and try to do everything in his/her power to keep that person on board ...

Oh, it is also true that I am mentally ill, and I did stop doing BOINC in tears, and with encouragement like his/hers well ... do I really want to live in a neighborhood where people treat people like that?

Anyway, some homework for you if you are serious with your question ...
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Message 52499 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 22:40:56 UTC

In the broder sense, not to put words in Paul's mouth, I believe he just meant that projects tend to be very focused on their immediate research, their current grants and projects, and so tend not to be looking forward 5 or 10 years.

Paul might also point out that he ran the "unofficial BOINC wiki" for many years and built up a lot of content in an effort to try and help the BOINC community to understand what BOINC is, how to use it, how to run it better, how to help report any problems etc. And in that effort he caught a lot of flaque about whatever was not included, or how the information wasn't polished nor loaded with marketing type graphics and commercial grade video animations. All those things were certainly true, but ya gotta respect a guy for putting himself out there.

And just this week, on the BOINC projects email list is discussion about how to reorganize the information and make it more user friendly, and incorporate lots of information that's floating around in various places. All problems that Paul was trying to address 3 years ago... in a format that others could contribute to as they saw appropriate. And so, if you think about what he's saying in terms of being 3 years ahead of the rest of the BOINC community, it may provide a context that makes some of his comments more clear.
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Message 52504 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 0:54:28 UTC

Paul did more than most know. He developed and implemented the "unofficial Boinc Wiki" on his own. He funded the site and solely developed content until it was roughly 1200 web pages in size. Some time after that he invited others to contribute since the scope and size of the wiki had become unmanageable for just one person to keep it up to date (especially considering the frequency of boinc version changes). Even though Paul felt the need to leave, he didn't just take his ball (the wiki) and go home. He posted it for any to download (I have a full copy) and attempt to continue on. IMO the whole boinc community owes Paul much more than he'll ever get.

I also have never seen Paul intentionally misrepresent, twist the shape of, or alter the truth.

tony
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Dusty

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Message 52515 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 13:46:49 UTC - in response to Message 52493.  

But I thank you for your answer! Thanks for taking the time to do so. I WILL read your threads, but I am currently at sea and our bandwidth (and spare time) is severely limited. I left my machines running at home, however (hope the place doesn't melt down).

I am interested in doing the most good with my machines, which is why I looked at all of the available projects on boinc before choosing to stick with Rosetta. When I deploy in August, those machines will have to be shut down until I get back 6 months later, however.

Take care, and thanks for all you have done and continue to do!

Mark


Can you elaborate on what you mean by " long range self help?"

No one will thank you for this question ...

The easiest way I can think to answer your question is to tell you to read this thread in its entirety, then the follow on thread and, um, this post and watch this movie ...

The other thing you can do is to read my post log starting from about here and read forward from there (just subtract 10 from the number at the top and read back till you get bored...)


In the fastest terms since no one these days seems to want to understand anything, or even answer questions (ABC forum example);

1) BOINC is hard and boring ...
2) Projects retreat into what I call their "ivory tower" and concentrate only on today's problems
3) the environment is toxic and hostile

And when someone tries to raise issues/questions, the problem/fault is with the person asking the question and not with the object of the question.

The last post in the ABC thread is the person pointing out that I am a whiner and that this person cannot wait until I leave doing BOINC ... other critiques are that I am a LONG WINDED, non-specific, whiner ...

So, how do they do self help ... well, collaborate for one... the projects are not isolated. The actions of one idiot on ABC, SaH, or RaH can lose a participant for a number of projects. For one thing, the guy that has taken a dislike of me on ABC is likely to be on this project also ... and many other projects also ... and looking at his link, so he is ...

But one thing he did say is true, two years ago, I did stop doing BONC, I stopped for many reasons, among the reasons was the prevalence of people like him ... now, *MY* opinion, if he/she cared as much about BOINC and BOINC projects he/she would be doing all that was in his power to understand the other person and try to do everything in his/her power to keep that person on board ...

Oh, it is also true that I am mentally ill, and I did stop doing BOINC in tears, and with encouragement like his/hers well ... do I really want to live in a neighborhood where people treat people like that?

Anyway, some homework for you if you are serious with your question ...

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Message 52516 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 14:02:25 UTC - in response to Message 52515.  

But I thank you for your answer! Thanks for taking the time to do so. I WILL read your threads, but I am currently at sea and our bandwidth (and spare time) is severely limited. I left my machines running at home, however (hope the place doesn't melt down).


Think of it as a letter from home ... :)

What ship? I deployed on USS Midway (2x), USS COnstellation, and USS KItty Hawk (7 years 1 month 21 days sea service time - though not all at sea of course)

I am interested in doing the most good with my machines, which is why I looked at all of the available projects on boinc before choosing to stick with Rosetta. When I deploy in August, those machines will have to be shut down until I get back 6 months later, however.


RaH is a pretty good choice, though it does not hold my heart as others do, that is just a personal thing, I tend towards the non-biological projects by choice. I am trying to get enthoused about math projects ...

The best news, if you look at my signature is that I have been playing with plenty of projects, and, all things considered, they are running well ...

I forget how I did remote monitoring, I think just by watching the project logs on the web sites to see if they were still returning work ... you could just let them run ... if they roll over ... have the spouse turn off the machine affected. (My memory says you mentioned a spouse, if there is none, I hope you take no offense).

Take care, and thanks for all you have done and continue to do!


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Message 52518 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 14:30:55 UTC - in response to Message 52504.  

I also have never seen Paul intentionally misrepresent, twist the shape of, or alter the truth.

Enough to make one blush ... Thank you Tony.

Though I can misunderstand someone ...

And I do not always have the best idea ... which I used to try to come up with a proposal to be commented upon.

And sadly, many of my posts can be misunderstood, usually because (I think) the reader has preconceived notions (perhaps about me) or is reading emotional content or criticism (complaining?) where the intent was commentary.

Tony also has done the kinds of things that oft go un-noticed, and these are the things that fall into that category of "self-help", where if the project were more proactive they could gain a lot.

Though a horizon of 5-10 years was mentioned, I was actually thinking more of a 1-2 year horizon. As an example, had *WE* undertaken some of the things I proposed just before leaving I think we would only be seeing some of the major fruits from that effort about this time.

The "new" wiki launch two days ago where material was moved out of the TracWiki into a MediaWiki store ... though I don't know how much it is changing ... I know I asked some questions about it in the dev mailing list ... still not answered as yet ...
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Message 52519 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 15:39:57 UTC - in response to Message 52516.  

USS Vella Gulf (CG72). An AEGIS Guided Missile Cruiser out of Norfolk, VA.

25 years so far, about 14 of them at sea. Going for 30.

No spouse, but no offence taken. I've been checking the website to make sure the machines are still uploading WU's so it looks good so far. I take my laptop aboard with enough WU's to keep it busy for a week or so at a pop.

Yes, I noticed that you are wrapped up in whole bunch of projects!

But I thank you for your answer! Thanks for taking the time to do so. I WILL read your threads, but I am currently at sea and our bandwidth (and spare time) is severely limited. I left my machines running at home, however (hope the place doesn't melt down).


Think of it as a letter from home ... :)

What ship? I deployed on USS Midway (2x), USS COnstellation, and USS KItty Hawk (7 years 1 month 21 days sea service time - though not all at sea of course)

I am interested in doing the most good with my machines, which is why I looked at all of the available projects on boinc before choosing to stick with Rosetta. When I deploy in August, those machines will have to be shut down until I get back 6 months later, however.


RaH is a pretty good choice, though it does not hold my heart as others do, that is just a personal thing, I tend towards the non-biological projects by choice. I am trying to get enthoused about math projects ...

The best news, if you look at my signature is that I have been playing with plenty of projects, and, all things considered, they are running well ...

I forget how I did remote monitoring, I think just by watching the project logs on the web sites to see if they were still returning work ... you could just let them run ... if they roll over ... have the spouse turn off the machine affected. (My memory says you mentioned a spouse, if there is none, I hope you take no offense).

Take care, and thanks for all you have done and continue to do!


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Message 52530 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 19:40:45 UTC

Well, I spoke a little soon ...

Hydrogen and YoYo did odd things ... the H people say they have a fix in so I am going to try again with three more tasks.

I could not figure out where to go in YoYo, so for the moment I put them on the shelf for a later date.

Should be about 3-4 new projects tomorrow ... Though I will be "balancing" my contributions to meet the goals I have (a secret) I have set for myself ... the good news is that I have been hitting some already ...

But, that it the point of BOINC, you gotta have fun...

I stopped having fun at 18 so quit at 20 ... did 6 years with the Air Force at McClellan AFB and that was interesting ... but my son-in-law (SeaBee) looks to be closing out in a couple years ...
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Message 52538 - Posted: 16 Apr 2008, 22:17:35 UTC - in response to Message 52530.  

It was a lot more fun in the 80s.... I do miss those days.

I do have fun, and one of these days I'll see that I hit the lowest energy level of the day. That is my personal goal; hopefully before I deploy.

Well, I spoke a little soon ...

Hydrogen and YoYo did odd things ... the H people say they have a fix in so I am going to try again with three more tasks.

I could not figure out where to go in YoYo, so for the moment I put them on the shelf for a later date.

Should be about 3-4 new projects tomorrow ... Though I will be "balancing" my contributions to meet the goals I have (a secret) I have set for myself ... the good news is that I have been hitting some already ...

But, that it the point of BOINC, you gotta have fun...

I stopped having fun at 18 so quit at 20 ... did 6 years with the Air Force at McClellan AFB and that was interesting ... but my son-in-law (SeaBee) looks to be closing out in a couple years ...

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