Rebel - their experience w/ tech support, especially the lack of drivers, matches mine. I'm also unpleasantly suprised to find my laptop CD/DVD - RW drive failing on a 3 yr 3 month old laptop while my 7 year old Inspiron 5000 is still working 100% despite being actually banged around on the road and having lots of electronics replaced after a lightning hit. Dell appears to be going steadily downhill, a victim of their own success.

Unless you are the kind of geek + nerd that can fix both hardware and software, either buy a second-hand machine that has had years to bed in, or buy a box from a business where you can speak face to face with the owner.

OK, the prices will be higher than a box from Dell, but it is worth it for the quality of support.

It is hard enough fighting thru a call centre to get a toaster repaired, but something complex like a puter, no way!

Unless you are the kind of geek + nerd that can fix both hardware and software, either buy a second-hand machine that has had years to bed in, or buy a box from a business where you can speak face to face with the owner.

I vote on the face-to-face approach. Locally there is a resurgence of "computer stores". In the 1980's if you wanted a computer, you'd go to your local shopping-center computer store where they would have Apple and Commodore and Atari and S-100 systems, and you'd actually get advice and assistance in picking the best thing to buy. In the 90's those were all driven under by the Frys, CompUSAs, etc., where you go in and take something off the shelf and put it in a shopping cart, and good luck finding anybody to answer a question, and _better_ luck finding somebody who can give you the _right_ answer.

Within a few miles of me now I can find about six little one-or-two-man operations that repair PCs, install upgrades, and will build you a system to order. The only reason I built my own 'cruncher' was for the experience of doing it, and I had a friend who would do the OS install for free; for $50 the shop would have done it all for me. After pricing CPUs and MBs and everything else online, I went in and the local store matched all those prices within a few dollars.

For under $1000, I got more CPU horsepower than a top-of-the-line $2500 Dell system, just by doing away with the fluff I didn't want or need. And when I took it in yesterday with the blown power supply, they asked if the motherboard had gone up with it, I said I didn't know, but he said "well, it doesn't matter, it's all under warranty; it'll be ready Monday". Most of the systems they build and sell are "fully loaded" (but obviously with a lesser CPU) and are around $6-700. I'm sure they make most of their profit on the $3000 "game machines" every rich male teenager around here apparently has to have.

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Thanks for the input. Hoping to limp on awhile longer, but I like to plan ahead for contingencies.

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FADBeens

Dell used to have good machines but now I wouldn't buy one. Even their business machines isn't as good as they once was.

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Anyone care to comment on what the computer version of a Nissan sedan is these days?

Sony Vaio maybe.

The one Celeron in my computer colletion is my Vaio notebook. About 3 years old now and runs as solid today as the day I bought it.

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I just spent the last six hours trying to install Windows XP on my fairly new AMD Athlon 64 3200+. I am now right back where I started, Windows 2000 SP1. XP won't install, XP x64 won't install, Slackware won't install, Win2000 SP2,3,4 won't install. I had a lot of trouble getting XP x64 on my Athlon 64x2 3800+ a couple of months ago. I am fed up with AMD, I wish I had Intel inside.

Sounds you have a hardware problem. Most likely your ram

I can't conceive of a hardware problem that would allow Windows 2000 SP1 to work but not anything else. Just for drill I ran Memtest-86 v3.2 for 2.5 hours, 4 complete passes, with no errors. I just upgraded the BIOS and will retry SP4. If that works I may retry XP.

Wish me luck,

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David Stites
Mount Vernon, WA USA

Good luck. Lost my internet for enough hours to make many new friends at the phone company. <eye roll here> Got it back, so I'm happy, but wondering what else will fail? <Checks roof for incoming meteors, looks out windows for flying pig traffic>

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FADBeens

Funniest Computer component failure I have ever had was a couple of years ago with an external US Robotics Modem.

Required input:
12v DC

Attached transformer output:
24v AC
(I just grabbed the closest free jack that fitted!):

Result:
Smoke, Sparks and a nasty smell that seemed to linger in the test room for many hours.

heh heh heh. We got laughs out of that for days!!


Speaking of bad customer support - our IT helpdesk at work took 2 days and I reckon about 10 phone calls to reset my LAN password after some problem on the Domain Controller caused my account to lock out. That was fun!


An amusing footnote: Lotus Notes client 5.x spell checker does not recognise the word "Helpdesk". It suggests "Helpless" as an alternative. Ah the irony!

Cheers,
Paul.

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Required input:
12v DC

Attached transformer output:
24v AC
(I just grabbed the closest free jack that fitted!):

You just described one of my (many) pet peeves. We have standards for almost everything _else_, but not for low-voltage power connectors? UL requires the transformer to say somewhere what it's output is, usually in black-on-black, 4-point type that can only be read with a loupe under a spotlight, but there apparently is nothing that says the _input_ must be labeled.

Let's see... box of computer stuff disconnected from one place and moved to new place... three transformers, all with NO label identifying even what company sold them, only an irrelevant manufacturer... 6VDC, 12VDC, and 24VDC... all identical connectors... And here we have a scanner, a printer, and a router. NO label anywhere close to the (identical) input jacks. And manuals, if any, are long gone. Any statistics majors out there want to calculate the chances of _not_ frying some expensive piece of equipment?

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As far as "PC Support" or whatever the department is called at most places, I have a lot of sympathy for them. They are usually very shorthanded and underfunded, and have to put up with _users_!!! But sometimes they are _so_ bad, they become a joke to everyone in the company. "I'm going to call PC non-support, but you'd better just figure on being down for a couple of days." The worst case I can recall is when we had an emergency program problem and brought in two very expensive contract programmers, from the other side of the country, not only paying a ridiculous hourly rate, but also hotel and air travel bills. As soon as we knew they were coming, we turned in all the paperwork to get them network accounts and passwords. PC support bounced it back - they wouldn't begin processing it without their SSN's, which we couldn't get as they were already enroute. They arrived at our door at 4:30PM, ready to work all night if necessary, and promptly filled out the rest of the forms. PC Support of course left for the day at 4PM, and there was _no_ way to contact anyone. Nobody even HAD an emergency number for anyone in that group with the ability to create accounts. So the programmers had a nice evening out. Next morning, when PC Support shows up, the forms are right there ready to go. Four hours later, programmers having been sitting drinking coffee and talking to us, at something like $500/hour, and having the screaming match between our manager and the PC Support manager (who refused to process our department's paperwork ahead of the THREE DAYS of backlogged requests from other departments) escalate all the way up to the VP level, we finally were able to get them started working. (Oh, before you ask the obvious, why didn't we just use _our_ accounts to get them logged on... that was a firing offense, NO exceptions allowed, and none of us were willing to risk it. It wasn't _our_ money!)

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Well if I am being honest I would have to say that both of these did (surprisingly!) have labels... I was just being lazy - rushing to test a change. The test room at the time was full of ATMs, PoS devices and lots of PCs and other equipment so you can imagine the mess of cables all over the place. My Modem was there on the table... no power in it and a suitable looking jack lying beside it. I just plugged it in and pop!

Cheers,

Paul.

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...

Speaking of bad customer support - our IT helpdesk at work took 2 days and I reckon about 10 phone calls to reset my LAN password after some problem on the Domain Controller caused my account to lock out. That was fun!

An amusing footnote: Lotus Notes client 5.x spell checker does not recognise the word "Helpdesk". It suggests "Helpless" as an alternative. Ah the irony!

Cheers,
Paul.

I suggest to you that the two sections of your message that I've highlighted are not entirely unrelated. Any IT department that would consider subjecting people to Lotus Notes do need to have their competence questioned.

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Any IT department that would consider subjecting people to Lotus Notes do need to have their competence questioned.

LOL :)

Actually I find Lotus Notes to be very good in most regards. It is far superior to MS offerings (outlook - any version!!) as a mail client.

With all the additional functionality such as location preferences, database replication, multiple databases, user programmable / customisable databases and applications; I find it to be a very powerful and useful tool.

[/End of praise for Notes!] ;)

cheers,

Paul.

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Actually I find Lotus Notes to be very good in most regards. It is far superior to MS offerings (outlook - any version!!) as a mail client.

But it was designed by someone who had never even HEARD of "user ergonomics", or "interface design". And every new version completely changed the interface. People say BOINC is complicated!

I don't know how many times I got an email that said "you aren't authorized to read this". Usually addressed directly to me. From someone in my same department, but other end of the country. It was usually easier to call or IM them and ask them to print the thing to my local printer, than it was to call the Notes administrator.

Yes, the database stuff was nice, especially for multiple people updating a document. When it worked, and you could figure out where somebody PUT something. And if you could make that ^%%*^* excuse for a word processor understand where a page started and stopped. We gave up on page numbers after a four-page document went out with "page 11 of 63", "page 12 of 63"...

As for "far superior to MS offerings" - so is an envelope and stamp. Your point? :-)

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I just spent the last six hours trying to install Windows XP on my fairly new AMD Athlon 64 3200+. I am now right back where I started, Windows 2000 SP1. XP won't install, XP x64 won't install, Slackware won't install, Win2000 SP2,3,4 won't install. I had a lot of trouble getting XP x64 on my Athlon 64x2 3800+ a couple of months ago. I am fed up with AMD, I wish I had Intel inside.

Sounds you have a hardware problem. Most likely your ram

I can't conceive of a hardware problem that would allow Windows 2000 SP1 to work but not anything else. Just for drill I ran Memtest-86 v3.2 for 2.5 hours, 4 complete passes, with no errors. I just upgraded the BIOS and will retry SP4. If that works I may retry XP.

Wish me luck,

Update: It appears that Monarch computer sold me a Venice cpu with E4 stepping and a motherboard with a BIOS that doesn't support that at this time. I have contacted Gigabyte to see when it will be available. Their website says it is in testing, who knows what that means.

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David Stites
Mount Vernon, WA USA

Well that's just not right.

You should put it all back in the box and get your money back... or else insist one of their tech's come and install a new CPU / motherboard that actully work together.


Paul

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Out of interest, what would peoples preferred mail client be?

Eudora.

After you've used it for a year or two, nothing else comes close.

IMNSHO. :)

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But it was designed by someone who had never even HEARD of "user ergonomics", or "interface design". And every new version completely changed the interface. People say BOINC is complicated!

Quoted for truth.

Notes does not adhere to the basics of CUA such as "shift click" and "ctrl click" doing what you'd expect in a list. Need I say more?

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Out of interest, what would peoples preferred mail client be?

There isn't one that I like "totally". Eudora is good, Claris EMailer had some good points (and I used the V1 version of that for years after V2 came out, then the whole thing was discontinued and the devs moved to Outlook), Apple's Mail app has some good points... I think the problem is that what I consider to be a "feature" in one app, someone else may consider to be a "bug", and vice-versa. I _use_ Apple's "Mail". I'm not totally happy with it, but at least it is more fully integrated into the OS than any of the 3rd-party mail clients for Mac.

As far as Notes (and others) UI, there are three basic texts that anyone designing a program _should_ have on their shelf: The original "Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines" (which were mostly used for Windows, so it's broadly relevant, and will tell you where Windows has it wrong... and why... and where OS X has it wrong, too); "Tog On Interface" by Bruce Tognazzini, _the_ expert on the subject; and "Are Your Lights On?", a book on _non_ computer UI that will have you slapping your head and saying "duh!" when you realize how many stupid design decisions become "standards" in the "real world". You'll never look at a _door_ the same way again. (Amazon link)

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You hate computers yet you read books on them
eeek I just click on stuff 'till it busts and my
computer goes beep!
:)

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