Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home

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Sid Celery

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Message 96894 - Posted: 30 May 2020, 17:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 96888.  

Sid Celery wrote:
I'm not getting that warning here

You’ll only see it with http_debug selected in your Event Log options


I got it without that selected, I only have the first three ticked: file_xfer, sched_ops, task

I normally have the same options set as you, Peter, and got other errors but not anything about Peer certificates etc
But using Brian's setting, the problem was revealed.
And using Toby's replacement crt file from the other thread and copying it across to the Boinc directory worked.

Upload errors solved, downloads solved too - thank you to everyone who investigated.

As someone else asked, now how does this get solved for the 99% of people who don't read a very specific forum thread?
If people can't automatically upload or download until it's fixed, how does the updated file get pushed out to them?
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Profile robertmiles

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Message 96935 - Posted: 30 May 2020, 23:33:06 UTC
Last modified: 30 May 2020, 23:39:43 UTC

I also used Toby's replacement crt file from the other thread. It worked, and I didn't even have to shut down BOINC to make the change,

I suspect that the fix for the 99% who don't read a relevant thread will have to be a new version of BOINC that include the new crt file instead of the old one. No other changes are essential, but it would be nice if it also modifies the way this file is used so that instead of failing at an expired entry, it checks the rest of the file to see if there's a replacement entry that isn't expired yet.
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IBM01902

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Message 96936 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 0:33:12 UTC - in response to Message 96841.  

I've seen tasks crash or more frustrating, get through hours of processing and just start over from 0 in the morning.
This particular project doesn't seem to handle checkpointing well, at least with me and my low memory, older processors, any brand.
Anything I've got with an AMD processor, also older, I've surrendered and put them on World Community Grid work.
At this point a few older Intel machines , I start them Saturday morning and let them run for the weekend days to try and get Rosetta a few runs, but this project just doesn't seem to be weak computer friendly. This project likes short deadlines and without checkpointing more frequently, mine can't do much during the week. I will say I haven't bothered the project team for help. I just figure if I can't figure it out, I know where they can be useful.
I'm hoping you get a good answer I can use :)
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Profile robertmiles

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Message 96940 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 0:57:15 UTC - in response to Message 96936.  
Last modified: 31 May 2020, 0:58:15 UTC

I've seen tasks crash or more frustrating, get through hours of processing and just start over from 0 in the morning.
This particular project doesn't seem to handle checkpointing well, at least with me and my low memory, older processors, any brand.
Anything I've got with an AMD processor, also older, I've surrendered and put them on World Community Grid work.
At this point a few older Intel machines , I start them Saturday morning and let them run for the weekend days to try and get Rosetta a few runs, but this project just doesn't seem to be weak computer friendly. This project likes short deadlines and without checkpointing more frequently, mine can't do much during the week. I will say I haven't bothered the project team for help. I just figure if I can't figure it out, I know where they can be useful.
I'm hoping you get a good answer I can use :)

How much memory do each of those older computers have? 2 GB per CPU core is enough to run some of the Rosetta@Home tasks, but not all of them. You have those computers set to be hidden, so I can't check rather than ask you.

Under Your account, Computing preferences, you can adjust the fraction of the computer's memory BOINC is allowed to use.

You can also adjust how often the tasks are allowed to ask to write a checkpoint (if they are at a point where a checkpoint will be useful); you may have this set too high. Of course, it is also possible that the Rosetta tasks have too few places where a checkpoint would be useful.
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Sid Celery

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Message 96971 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 9:10:01 UTC - in response to Message 96940.  

I've seen tasks crash or more frustrating, get through hours of processing and just start over from 0 in the morning.
This particular project doesn't seem to handle checkpointing well, at least with me and my low memory, older processors, any brand.
Anything I've got with an AMD processor, also older, I've surrendered and put them on World Community Grid work.
At this point a few older Intel machines , I start them Saturday morning and let them run for the weekend days to try and get Rosetta a few runs, but this project just doesn't seem to be weak computer friendly. This project likes short deadlines and without checkpointing more frequently, mine can't do much during the week. I will say I haven't bothered the project team for help. I just figure if I can't figure it out, I know where they can be useful.
I'm hoping you get a good answer I can use :)

How much memory do each of those older computers have? 2 GB per CPU core is enough to run some of the Rosetta@Home tasks, but not all of them. You have those computers set to be hidden, so I can't check rather than ask you.

Under Your account, Computing preferences, you can adjust the fraction of the computer's memory BOINC is allowed to use.

You can also adjust how often the tasks are allowed to ask to write a checkpoint (if they are at a point where a checkpoint will be useful); you may have this set too high. Of course, it is also possible that the Rosetta tasks have too few places where a checkpoint would be useful.

I'm pretty sure we can't ask a task to checkpoint - we can only ask for tasks not to checkpoint too often.
Checkpointing certainly has been an issue in the past, though in the most recent program version it's also certainly been improved.

I'm under the impression (but may be wrong) that when RAM is tight or short, restarting at zero happens a lot more often. It's made worse by the significant increase in RAM demands of tasks since CV19 became a priority. I'm not sure anything can be done about that in order to return meaningful results. Certain types of tasks don't need high RAM, while others definitely do, so it's right to say this project is now very demanding and unforgiving of PCs that can no longer be seen as adequate in the modern day
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Mr P Hucker
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Message 96980 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 11:42:58 UTC - in response to Message 96936.  

I've seen tasks crash or more frustrating, get through hours of processing and just start over from 0 in the morning.
This particular project doesn't seem to handle checkpointing well, at least with me and my low memory, older processors, any brand.
Anything I've got with an AMD processor, also older, I've surrendered and put them on World Community Grid work.
At this point a few older Intel machines , I start them Saturday morning and let them run for the weekend days to try and get Rosetta a few runs, but this project just doesn't seem to be weak computer friendly. This project likes short deadlines and without checkpointing more frequently, mine can't do much during the week. I will say I haven't bothered the project team for help. I just figure if I can't figure it out, I know where they can be useful.
I'm hoping you get a good answer I can use :)


The worst machine I have is an old Acer laptop I got from freecycle in non-working order (busted hard disk, dodgy charger connection). Quad core Intel i3 M350 CPU, with 8GB RAM (I was given it with 3GB! Totally unusable for anything, the board won't take more than 8 though).

4 Rosettas fills the RAM up. So I set Boinc to use 80% of RAM, and limited in the app config of Rosetta to only run 3 at once, allowing the other core to get a Universe task which are tiny in RAM. It's quite happy with pausing and resuming tasks.

You could:
Limit how many Rosettas run at once in app config.
Limit Boinc's total RAM usage.
If it's a computer that's not turned off much, set the "change between applications" to a very high number (it will accept 100000 minutes), so it doesn't pause work units to do others, everything runs to completion in one go.
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Jim Martin

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Message 96989 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 12:47:28 UTC - in response to Message 96501.  
Last modified: 31 May 2020, 12:48:15 UTC

Robert -- I tried to delete the certificates, after turning off BOINC, but was unsuccessful. Will waiting for BOINC people to address this issue
'be better? No uploading of wu's. It seems it's a BOINC problem, to fix, and not mine (one of 99%).

Thanks, for your efforts, however, on ca-bundle.crt

ps, I have a Dell E7240, with Windows 7. No problems, until now (Have run rosetta@home, since 2005.)
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Erich56

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Message 96990 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 12:55:55 UTC - in response to Message 96989.  

Jim - see here: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=8452&postid=96958#96958

very easy to to, you don't even have to shut down BOINC for replacing the file in the BOINC folder.
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Message 96998 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 13:26:30 UTC - in response to Message 96989.  
Last modified: 31 May 2020, 13:32:05 UTC

Robert -- I tried to delete the certificates, after turning off BOINC, but was unsuccessful. Will waiting for BOINC people to address this issue
'be better? No uploading of wu's. It seems it's a BOINC problem, to fix, and not mine (one of 99%).

Thanks, for your efforts, however, on ca-bundle.crt

ps, I have a Dell E7240, with Windows 7. No problems, until now (Have run rosetta@home, since 2005.)

I finally downloaded the updated ca-bundle.crt file, renamed the old one, and then copied the updated one into the directory that held the old one. I don't know how to edit that file either.

I've asked the group that maintains BOINC to consider a new version of BOINC, with that file updated, to handle the users who can't deal with updating just the certificates file.
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Jim Martin

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Message 97001 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 13:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 96990.  

Erich -- Thanks, for the info., leading to OneDrive. I installed it, and am now waiting for the uploads It appears there are a lot, ahead of me.
Cheers, ps, I installed, w/o (trying) to delete the previous certificate dates. Assume that was ok.
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Patrick Meyer

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Message 97002 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 13:50:47 UTC

i have been have trouble uploading working units i have about 20 that will not upload
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Brian Nixon

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Message 97004 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 13:57:04 UTC - in response to Message 97002.  

Patrick Meyer wrote:
i have been have trouble uploading working units i have about 20 that will not upload

This is a known issue that started yesterday. Please read this thread: Peer certificate cannot be authenticated with given CA certificates
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Erich56

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Message 97008 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 14:20:14 UTC - in response to Message 97001.  

ps, I installed, w/o (trying) to delete the previous certificate dates. Assume that was ok.
you were not asked whether the exesting file with same name should be replaced? This normal Windiws procedure.
Did you get new Rosetta tasks downloaded okay?
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Erich56

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Message 97009 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 14:23:19 UTC - in response to Message 96998.  

I've asked the group that maintains BOINC to consider a new version of BOINC, with that file updated, to handle the users who can't deal with updating just the certificates file.
any reaction from their side so far?
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Brian Nixon

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Message 97013 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 14:48:53 UTC - in response to Message 97009.  

Erich56 wrote:
robertmiles wrote:
I've asked the group that maintains BOINC to consider a new version of BOINC

any reaction from their side so far?

The issue is being discussed in the BOINC forums: Peer certificate cannot be authenticated with given CA certificates.

And there’s a GitHub issue open against the client: Client: security certificate expired (#3789). That’s marked as Priority: Blocker, which should get the devs’ attention…
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Erich56

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Message 97016 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 14:58:27 UTC - in response to Message 97013.  

The issue is being discussed in the BOINC forums: Peer certificate cannot be authenticated with given CA certificates.

And there’s a GitHub issue open against the client: Client: security certificate expired (#3789). That’s marked as Priority: Blocker, which should get the devs’ attention…

ah, thanks for the information :-)
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Message 97018 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 15:19:02 UTC - in response to Message 97009.  

I've asked the group that maintains BOINC to consider a new version of BOINC, with that file updated, to handle the users who can't deal with updating just the certificates file.
any reaction from their side so far?

Not yet.
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Jim Martin

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Message 97039 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 17:39:09 UTC - in response to Message 97008.  
Last modified: 31 May 2020, 17:43:23 UTC

I'll re-allow more rosetta@home tasks. As for knowledge of normal Microsoft procedures, I don't feel I should have to know all that, to
run Baker Lab wu's. After all, "You don't have to be a Scientist to do Science". Well, I'm not a software/IT engineer, either. So, I rely on
the experts to make it a simple op. This problem should have never had to be brought to our attention. A fix, before a problem.
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IBM01902

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Message 97053 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 18:53:07 UTC - in response to Message 96980.  

Your worst has 4x more memory than some of mine and the processors are too old too. I don't even think they support PAE and it's getting harder to find a Linux that will support them. I agree there's not enough memory for Rosetta as I've tried limiting the number of consecutive tasks and moving all the other params to free up what little ram they have.
Off to WCG with those old laptops and then eventually admit their just room heaters.
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Mr P Hucker
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Message 97066 - Posted: 31 May 2020, 19:42:59 UTC - in response to Message 97053.  

Your worst has 4x more memory than some of mine and the processors are too old too. I don't even think they support PAE and it's getting harder to find a Linux that will support them. I agree there's not enough memory for Rosetta as I've tried limiting the number of consecutive tasks and moving all the other params to free up what little ram they have.
Off to WCG with those old laptops and then eventually admit their just room heaters.


Cram as much RAM in the board as it will take (old memory is dirt cheap on Ebay), then run whatever it will run. I select different projects (or even sub-projects) depending on what the computer is capable of. At the moment in the piping hot weather in Scotland, I've got an air conditioner running! Probably competing against the computers. And no I can't open the windows, I have parrots flying around the house.
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