Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home

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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 104422 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 20:45:16 UTC - in response to Message 104417.  

Right. That is the point. You need a lot more. But I think .clair. mentioned Samsung Magician. I have used it when I was on Windows, and it includes around a GB, or maybe less, but could be enough to save an SSD if you did not run too many work units.
I'd forgotten about Samsung Magician's Rapid Mode. Had a quick look and couldn't find any info on if the cache is adjustable at all, or if the more RAM you have the larger it is by default (as it would have to be smaller in a system with limited RAM).
The installation manual only shows it as using around 1.3GB of RAM when checking to see if it is installed and running, but it doesn't give any idea of how much RAM was on the system it was installed on.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team
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Message 104423 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 20:48:42 UTC - in response to Message 104418.  

To be honest, i would classify the present Python work as being at Alpha test level of development- they are still not even good enough for Beta testing. They are no where near being ready for actual deployment IMHO.
I thought this was what Ralph@home was for?

Excessive system requirements.
Not really, try running LHC.
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 104424 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 20:53:06 UTC - in response to Message 104423.  

To be honest, i would classify the present Python work as being at Alpha test level of development- they are still not even good enough for Beta testing. They are no where near being ready for actual deployment IMHO.
I thought this was what Ralph@home was for?
That's meant to be for Beta testing.
These Python tasks haven't even reached that level of development IMHO.



Excessive system requirements.
Not really, try running LHC.
Excessive in the fact that what it requires to run is well in excess of what is ever actually used.
Grant
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team
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Message 104425 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 20:58:29 UTC - in response to Message 104424.  

I thought this was what Ralph@home was for?
That's meant to be for Beta testing.
These Python tasks haven't even reached that level of development IMHO.
Actually the "alph" in Ralph means alpha doesn't it? Anyway, testing is testing, it's a bit pedantic to say if it's alpha or beta. The point is on Ralph we don't mind stuff going wrong, so that's where it should be. It probably does work on their own machines, but fails when sent out to 1000s of different combinations of hardware, so it needs to go to Ralph.

Not really, try running LHC.
Excessive in the fact that what it requires to run is well in excess of what is ever actually used.
How do you know it's not using it?
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Message 104427 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 21:14:59 UTC - in response to Message 104425.  

I thought this was what Ralph@home was for?
That's meant to be for Beta testing.
These Python tasks haven't even reached that level of development IMHO.
Actually the "alph" in Ralph means alpha doesn't it?
Which shows how bad things are.
Even for public Alpha testing, it should at least be close to Beta test quality. Not just initial release Alpha testing.



Anyway, testing is testing, it's a bit pedantic to say if it's alpha or beta.
There is a huge difference between Alpha & Beta testing. Hence the different names. Getting things right isn't pedantic, it avoids messes like we presently have here with the Python work.



Not really, try running LHC.
Excessive in the fact that what it requires to run is well in excess of what is ever actually used.
How do you know it's not using it?
Because when we initially had hundreds of posts about people not being able to get work due to not enough RAM or DIsk space, others that did have work were posting what was actually being used. That got some of requirements reduced, but they are still excessive relative to what is actually being used.
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Message 104428 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 21:21:34 UTC - in response to Message 104413.  
Last modified: 22 Jan 2022, 21:27:03 UTC

I had my machines some on Win 7 home and some win 7 ultimate. They all got an upgrade to Win 10 home or win 10 pro for free. But I don't think they still do it, unless you fiddle with the settings and say you're disabled!

I just had a quick look around the net and an upgrade to win10pro may still be possible
Maybe if I tell MS that I am insane and I boinc 24/7
You don`t have to be mad to work here , but it helps.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team
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Message 104429 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 21:59:57 UTC - in response to Message 104427.  

Actually the "alph" in Ralph means alpha doesn't it?
Which shows how bad things are.
Even for public Alpha testing, it should at least be close to Beta test quality. Not just initial release Alpha testing.
I would agree with you if it was say a freeware program to edit photos that you were letting the public use. They expect it to pretty much work. But we know we're testing stuff in Ralph, we don't care if hardly any tasks work, we know we're helping them test it. Why should they waste time and money testing it in house when we can do it? That's the point of Boinc, to help the researchers.

Anyway, testing is testing, it's a bit pedantic to say if it's alpha or beta.
There is a huge difference between Alpha & Beta testing. Hence the different names. Getting things right isn't pedantic, it avoids messes like we presently have here with the Python work.
That's like having two categories, fast cars and slow cars. Where do you draw the line?

How do you know it's not using it?
Because when we initially had hundreds of posts about people not being able to get work due to not enough RAM or disk space, others that did have work were posting what was actually being used. That got some of requirements reduced, but they are still excessive relative to what is actually being used.
Are you referring to how much RAM is required for the task to consider starting? Maybe that's hard to predict.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team
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Message 104430 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 22:00:40 UTC - in response to Message 104428.  

I had my machines some on Win 7 home and some win 7 ultimate. They all got an upgrade to Win 10 home or win 10 pro for free. But I don't think they still do it, unless you fiddle with the settings and say you're disabled!

I just had a quick look around the net and an upgrade to win10pro may still be possible
Maybe if I tell MS that I am insane and I boinc 24/7
You don`t have to be mad to work here , but it helps.
Anything is possible depending which websites you're willing to use. When I say I had Windows 7 on 7 machines....
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Message 104431 - Posted: 22 Jan 2022, 23:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 104421.  
Last modified: 23 Jan 2022, 0:01:57 UTC

My Windows 10 is using 10% of my RAM = 6.5GB for a write cache. And if you tick the box to turn off write cache buffer flushing, it helps even more. Right click the drive, properties, hardware, properties, change settings, policies, tick "turn off buffer flushing".

It appears that you are looking at the Performance tab in Task Manager. That just says "cache". I think they stick everything they can into the memory for faster retrieval of programs that you have already opened. In other words, it is a read cache.
But I don't know how they implement it, so there may be something you could call a write cache, but more for system programs or desktop apps.
I don't think the user has any control over it however, and I doubt that they would put any of the BOINC writes into it, which is something they don't know anything about.

I would leave buffer flushing on.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team
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Message 104432 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 1:57:20 UTC - in response to Message 104431.  

My Windows 10 is using 10% of my RAM = 6.5GB for a write cache. And if you tick the box to turn off write cache buffer flushing, it helps even more. Right click the drive, properties, hardware, properties, change settings, policies, tick "turn off buffer flushing".
It appears that you are looking at the Performance tab in Task Manager. That just says "cache". I think they stick everything they can into the memory for faster retrieval of programs that you have already opened. In other words, it is a read cache.
But I don't know how they implement it, so there may be something you could call a write cache, but more for system programs or desktop apps.
I don't think the user has any control over it however, and I doubt that they would put any of the BOINC writes into it, which is something they don't know anything about.

I would leave buffer flushing on.
No, the 10% (= 6.5GB in my case) is from me reading an article. The task manager shows (all memory not in use by programs) is a cache, most of that will be a read cache.

They don't need to know about Boinc, they write cache any writes to disk.

Why would I leave buffer flushing on? It's a bit safer if you crash or have powercuts a lot, but it impedes performance and as you said wears out the disk quicker.
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Message 104433 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 3:01:42 UTC - in response to Message 104432.  

No, the 10% (= 6.5GB in my case) is from me reading an article. The task manager shows (all memory not in use by programs) is a cache, most of that will be a read cache.

They don't need to know about Boinc, they write cache any writes to disk.

Why would I leave buffer flushing on? It's a bit safer if you crash or have powercuts a lot, but it impedes performance and as you said wears out the disk quicker.

Certainly it is from you reading an article. When you open a word processor or web browser, for example, it initially reads the information from the disk drive (SSD). But it also places it in the cache. Then, the next time you open that same page, it can read the information from the cache, rather than from the disk drive. It is a bit faster, but not much in the case of an SSD, since they have fast reads anyway. It was developed mainly for use with mechanical disk drives, where it can make more of a difference.

You don't have a write cache. There is no point in risking a crash.
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Message 104438 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 12:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 104418.  

Errors that result in systems being black listed from getting work

When do systems get blacklisted?
I'm using a self-written script to abort tasks that don't process, wondering whether this can get my systems blacklisted too.
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Message 104439 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 12:45:53 UTC

I need a bit of help with the m.2 drive.
It is installed correctly, driver updated
BIOS sees it.
Device manager sees it.
But File Explorer does not.

This is where I want to put the data files for BOINC, but I can't seem to find the drive.
Did a self test out of BIOS, that was clean.
I'm lost.
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Message 104441 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 14:28:03 UTC - in response to Message 104439.  

Do you see the drive in the Disk Management? If yes, can you assign it a drive letter there?
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Message 104442 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 14:30:45 UTC - in response to Message 104439.  

I need a bit of help with the m.2 drive.
It is installed correctly, driver updated
BIOS sees it.
Device manager sees it.
But File Explorer does not.

This is where I want to put the data files for BOINC, but I can't seem to find the drive.
Did a self test out of BIOS, that was clean.
I'm lost.

File Explorer won't see it if there is no partition on it.
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Message 104443 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 15:37:38 UTC - in response to Message 104442.  

File Explorer won't see it if there is no partition on it.

Good point. If you go into Disk Management, you should be able to see the drive.
Then, right-click on it, and select "New Simple Volume".

Or you can always use Parted Magic.
https://partedmagic.com/

It used to be that you had to create a partition on a drive to even install Windows, but now Windows does it automatically.
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Message 104444 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 16:51:20 UTC - in response to Message 104443.  

File Explorer won't see it if there is no partition on it.

Good point. If you go into Disk Management, you should be able to see the drive.
Then, right-click on it, and select "New Simple Volume".

Or you can always use Parted Magic.
https://partedmagic.com/

It used to be that you had to create a partition on a drive to even install Windows, but now Windows does it automatically.



Didn't want to pay for that program, but found another to do the job.
So magic! I can see everything now.

Going to take a hit on credit for lost work, because I migrated without finishing all the work. Oh well.

Curious to see what RAH will do now that it has 100% again.
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Message 104445 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 16:53:14 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jan 2022, 16:55:08 UTC

What?

1/23/2022 5:37:15 PM | | GPU detection failed: process exited with status 0x1: Incorrect function. (0x1)
1/23/2022 5:37:15 PM | | No usable GPUs found

FAH uses them just fine.
And my monitor runs off of one of them.
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Message 104448 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 19:16:30 UTC - in response to Message 104445.  

There are three major kinds of GPUs - Nvidia, AMD, and Intel. You may need to match the kind BOINC sees to the kind or kinds the applications are written to be able to use.
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Message 104454 - Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 20:01:41 UTC - in response to Message 104448.  

There are three major kinds of GPUs - Nvidia, AMD, and Intel. You may need to match the kind BOINC sees to the kind or kinds the applications are written to be able to use.



GPU units were used prior to installing a m.2 drive and changing data folder location.

Nothing changed other than a m.2 drive being installed and the data moved.

Drivers uninstalled and redone, BOINC removed and reinstalled.

I guess I'll run out the work I have now and erase BOINC and the data folders.
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