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Message 80383 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 0:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 80382.  


Donation link is on the front page near the top-left, something to consider.

I never paid attention to that part of the site before...


I'll also mention that when you donate you are given a box to fill in what you want the money to be spent on. If the program suddenly got flooded with a hundred donations all with the message "for use for server upgrades to help with the 'project backoff' issues during peak load times" perhaps it would be more effective than being a talking head on a forum.


That's exactly what I just did...


@ BarryAZ and Dr. Merkwürdigliebe - Thanks for being so awesome. When I wrote the post about donating I was half prepared to be heavily flamed by the 'but we are already donating our computing power!' crowd.

If the project is in need of funds, be it for upgrading the server or perhaps hiring some help for exploring CPU optimizations or GPU ports or whatever, I think looking into running official crowd-funding campaigns may be a good way to go. 'Fundraising Thermometers' do wonders for helping projects like this hit a goal :)

Let's keep the donations flowing, as my original comment said, you can put your thoughts about the need for server hardware upgrades in the 'what do you want this donation to be spent on' comment box that you get to fill out when donating, and I recon it will get a lot more official visibility from the project admins than posting aimlessly on this forum. :)


Why do I think they are so under staffed that this "donating" initiative wouldn't even kick off :(
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Message 80384 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 1:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 80377.  

For me, at this point, I'm doing my part to reduce the stress on the server as I've set most of my workstations for 'no new work'. When life settles down, I will of course revert to my defaults there.

Not meaning to criticise, but setting to 'no new work' seems redundant. Chance for any work would be a fine thing.

I'd leave things as they are - when work is available it'll come through, however little. And if the problems are resolved, no need to change anything either.

I agree the 24hr backoff is something that should be examined. It would make more sense to me that the backoff match the period of time it takes to typically get more work available.

I don't know how these things work, but istm an adjustment should be trivial. A 2 minute job. No? An hour backoff should be perfectly sufficient - the key being that it backs off uploads atm and with the short deadlines under CASP that's a bigger problem than it would ordinarily be.

I hope we can all also agree that having many posts around the boards talking about such things with wild speculations about causes and hurling insults at the project team is not very constructive.

The claim of 'laziness' was particularly crass.

I wouldn't expect anything to change while CASP is active. I know they are doing their best to keep the work flowing as smoothly as possible. I also know I can attach to backup projects, change my resource shares, increase my runtimes, and not stress about things I cannot control.

Agree with that except for the first part, for the reason given above. Resolving the backoff issue is more important /because/ of CASP, imo.
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Message 80385 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 2:03:15 UTC - in response to Message 80378.  

But you've also to understand that we give you computational power for FREE.

Maybe I'm being particularly stupid, but with less work issued then you're giving less computational power free - releasing it back to you. So no-one's losing anything. We're gaining something.

I genuinely don't understand this point. Unless it's about gaining something we don't want to gain (which I actually do understand).

I notice you run several other projects. Any runtime lost here will create a debt under Boinc that will be filled at some later time. Unless there's something I've missed, I'm struggling to see this issue.

The bottom line seems to be that every single task Rosetta issues out is being grabbed and processed and returned at maximum speed (backoff issue notwithstanding). So while more processing potential is clearly on offer to the project, which no-one wants to turn down or alienate, the throughput is at its peak capacity.
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Message 80386 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 2:09:26 UTC - in response to Message 80380.  

Donation link is on the front page near the top-left, something to consider.
I never paid attention to that part of the site before...

I'll also mention that when you donate you are given a box to fill in what you want the money to be spent on. If the program suddenly got flooded with a hundred donations all with the message "for use for server upgrades to help with the 'project backoff' issues during peak load times" perhaps it would be more effective than being a talking head on a forum.

That's exactly what I just did...

I already contribute a small amount elsewhere, but I never noticed the option here either. Nor know that it could be directed in a specific way. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Message 80388 - Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 15:24:16 UTC
Last modified: 17 Jul 2016, 15:24:51 UTC

Although I am slightly miffed that the implication that my cpu time is not enough giving as I pay electricity for ~25 computers. I would like to know that if I donate money directly will it actually be used to correct thing directly related to the issues crunchers have? If it just goes to the project and they buy new beakers or flasks I have no interest as I donate to other causes.

I would donate today if I knew that the 24 hour backoff would be fixed. I moved on to other projects because of it. I would rather crunch rosetta but it takes to much of my time making sure it has tasks and such.
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Message 80389 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 2:05:09 UTC

Am I imagining it, or have tasks available to send kept its head above water in the last 24+ hours (90k rather than 50k) while tasks in progress have shot up over 2 million? No 24hr back offs either.

It may only be temporary but grateful for a smooth run for however long it lasts
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Message 80391 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 15:55:34 UTC - in response to Message 80379.  
Last modified: 18 Jul 2016, 15:56:01 UTC

For all the talking heads on here complaining about lack of server upgrades, consider putting your money where your mouth is.

I donate a couple hundred dollars per year to this project on top of the computing resources I contribute.

Donation link is on the front page near the top-left, something to consider.


Donation is not a bad idea, but i not so optimist about
- Rosetta (aka IPD) receives money from University of Washington, NIH, Bill&Melinda Gates Foundation (20 M$), NFS, some Pharma Industries, etc, so i don't know how much they are "sensible" about my 20$.
- They are a research center/university and they can have a lot of hw and sw discounts (for example, RHEL Academic), facilitations and so on.

I'm here since 2005 and i intend to remain (with my mouth), but i like if the project grows up with new possibilities.
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Message 80392 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 16:02:13 UTC - in response to Message 80388.  

Although I am slightly miffed that the implication that my cpu time is not enough giving as I pay electricity for ~25 computers. I would like to know that if I donate money directly will it actually be used to correct thing directly related to the issues crunchers have?


Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity
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Message 80393 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 16:15:25 UTC - in response to Message 80392.  

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.
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Message 80394 - Posted: 18 Jul 2016, 23:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 80393.  

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.


While those numbers might seem impressive, there's no indication of how many of those donations are earmarked directly to the Rosetta@Home program fund. At the same time, $28.426M is still very much a shoestring budget in the bioinformatics world and the things people are stomping their feet for on these forums may not make the cut in terms of priorities when slicing up this particular pie; All said, the fact remains that your $20 donation may be the loudest voice you have in advocating for something like a server upgrade, etc.
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Message 80395 - Posted: 19 Jul 2016, 1:54:03 UTC - in response to Message 80394.  
Last modified: 19 Jul 2016, 2:12:42 UTC

UW/IPD gets lots of money for various projects. Some of these are commercial (translational research, KumaMax etc.) and they do NOT use BOINC. Bill & Melinda Gates money funds 5-10 different labs that aren't even part of UW.

I wish we had access to some of that money for basic research and boinc!

Rosetta@home is primarily used to do research into topics that are non-commercial and purely scientific. Hence we don't see that money, and rely on compute donations from BOINC. The money we do get for basic research, most ends up going to paying for actual lab experiments (which are VERY expensive).

I personally pay, out of my own pocket, to host some of research I do... due to limited funds/resources.

I'll have to check how the money donated on the boinc website gets allocated to boinc related issues! Update: I've emailed the folks that manage the funds to check how much money we get from the donate button here, and if it goes directly to boinc improvement. I know about ~2 years ago we had a major upgrade to robetta (the public server, which uses rosetta@home).

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.


While those numbers might seem impressive, there's no indication of how many of those donations are earmarked directly to the Rosetta@Home program fund. At the same time, $28.426M is still very much a shoestring budget in the bioinformatics world and the things people are stomping their feet for on these forums may not make the cut in terms of priorities when slicing up this particular pie; All said, the fact remains that your $20 donation may be the loudest voice you have in advocating for something like a server upgrade, etc.
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Message 80396 - Posted: 19 Jul 2016, 1:55:16 UTC - in response to Message 80394.  

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.


While those numbers might seem impressive, there's no indication of how many of those donations are earmarked directly to the Rosetta@Home program fund. At the same time, $28.426M is still very much a shoestring budget in the bioinformatics world and the things people are stomping their feet for on these forums may not make the cut in terms of priorities when slicing up this particular pie; All said, the fact remains that your $20 donation may be the loudest voice you have in advocating for something like a server upgrade, etc.



A lot of people are just stomping to get the 24 hour back off changed. A small fix that would quiet a bunch of us. It would also send the message that at least the rosetta people are aware of our presence and listening to our concerns.

I am aware that my cpu power was a drop in the proverbial bucket, but the lack of response has forced me to move to other projects. I know rosetta will be fine without me, but I will also be fine without them.
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Message 80397 - Posted: 19 Jul 2016, 4:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 80389.  

Am I imagining it, or have tasks available to send kept its head above water in the last 24+ hours (90k rather than 50k) while tasks in progress have shot up over 2 million? No 24hr back offs either.

Ready to send 113,982
In progress 2,622,778

Looks to me like that extra million tasks I mentioned have been made and taken up. I've still got more than 20 WCG tasks to work through in my buffer and replace with Rosetta tasks, so lets see how many more are needed. Hopefully those on default settings are satisfied by now - though no way to know that tbf.
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Message 80400 - Posted: 19 Jul 2016, 17:21:19 UTC

Sid, you'll see churning like that constantly. The "ready to send" is apparently consumed several time over just during each 10 minute refresh of the data. You'll see the "in progress" bounce by half a million sometimes (up or down) just in 10 minutes.
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Message 80401 - Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 2:58:29 UTC - in response to Message 80400.  

Sid, you'll see churning like that constantly. The "ready to send" is apparently consumed several time over just during each 10 minute refresh of the data. You'll see the "in progress" bounce by half a million sometimes (up or down) just in 10 minutes.

Maybe I'm imagining it then. But it seemed like 1.5m over a couple of days. More to the point, I haven't seen any back-offs for a few days now, for whatever reason. I'm back to a full buffer of 100% Rosetta tasks
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Message 80402 - Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 3:52:26 UTC - in response to Message 80395.  

Then maybe placing a "donate" button on the homepage along maybe a "donation thermometer" would be a good idea?

UW/IPD gets lots of money for various projects. Some of these are commercial (translational research, KumaMax etc.) and they do NOT use BOINC. Bill & Melinda Gates money funds 5-10 different labs that aren't even part of UW.

I wish we had access to some of that money for basic research and boinc!

Rosetta@home is primarily used to do research into topics that are non-commercial and purely scientific. Hence we don't see that money, and rely on compute donations from BOINC. The money we do get for basic research, most ends up going to paying for actual lab experiments (which are VERY expensive).

I personally pay, out of my own pocket, to host some of research I do... due to limited funds/resources.

I'll have to check how the money donated on the boinc website gets allocated to boinc related issues! Update: I've emailed the folks that manage the funds to check how much money we get from the donate button here, and if it goes directly to boinc improvement. I know about ~2 years ago we had a major upgrade to robetta (the public server, which uses rosetta@home).

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.


While those numbers might seem impressive, there's no indication of how many of those donations are earmarked directly to the Rosetta@Home program fund. At the same time, $28.426M is still very much a shoestring budget in the bioinformatics world and the things people are stomping their feet for on these forums may not make the cut in terms of priorities when slicing up this particular pie; All said, the fact remains that your $20 donation may be the loudest voice you have in advocating for something like a server upgrade, etc.


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Message 80405 - Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 10:36:01 UTC - in response to Message 80402.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2016, 10:36:48 UTC

Then maybe placing a "donate" button on the homepage along maybe a "donation thermometer" would be a good idea?


Why not a crowdfounding campaign "New server for Rosy"??
With some rewards for donations (es. t-shirts with rosetta logo or mention in the next publications) i think they reach the goal easily.
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Message 80464 - Posted: 2 Aug 2016, 23:08:27 UTC

Is there still a pending credit issue? The web and work servers are not currently over loaded. I think what happened before was a particular daemon crashed for some odd reason and a restart fixed it.
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Message 80466 - Posted: 3 Aug 2016, 3:01:20 UTC - in response to Message 80464.  

Is there still a pending credit issue? The web and work servers are not currently over loaded. I think what happened before was a particular daemon crashed for some odd reason and a restart fixed it.

Tasks are being served on demand for my 2 PCs and I haven't seen any of those 24hr back-off messages for 2 weeks. This, in spite of some very low numbers shown in the homepage's queued jobs and ready to send on the Server Status page recently.

As someone else mentioned, there don't seem to have been any Android tasks available for several days and I am getting 24hr backoffs on that one device.
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Message 80475 - Posted: 3 Aug 2016, 17:56:35 UTC - in response to Message 80396.  

Is it possible to see a reporting about donations/grants/whatsoever and how they use money? Or these numbers are not public?
It's not polemic, only curiosity


Ok, i do a little research by myself and i find:
In June 2014 the IPD established its Translational Research Center, which is operated with a $1.4 million Opportunity Grant from the Life Sciences Discovery Fund (LSDF). The LSDF funding to the IPD was matched 4-fold by generous contributions from private donors ($3.2 M), UW ($1.4 M), and the Washington Research Foundation ($1 M).
Dr. Pultz was recently awarded a competitive $250K proof of concept matching grant from the LSDF to conduct animal efficacy studies and safety testing of the lead KumaMax variant, an effort which is being matched by an additional $176K in philanthropic donor funding.
In the last update, we mentioned that Governor Jay Inslee’s 2014 Supplemental Budget (4-13-13) included $1 million to support the IPD mission, enabling the UW to recruit a talented computational biologist, Dr. Frank DiMaio
This January, the IPD was awarded $12M in funding by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to support vaccine research.
May 15, 2014. With a very generous $8 M gift from the Washington Research Foundation (WRF), the IPD has launched the WRF-IPD Innovation Fellows Program supporting research partnerships between the IPD and other Seattle-area research institutes or UW departments


Yeap, my 20 dollars are very important.


While those numbers might seem impressive, there's no indication of how many of those donations are earmarked directly to the Rosetta@Home program fund. At the same time, $28.426M is still very much a shoestring budget in the bioinformatics world and the things people are stomping their feet for on these forums may not make the cut in terms of priorities when slicing up this particular pie; All said, the fact remains that your $20 donation may be the loudest voice you have in advocating for something like a server upgrade, etc.



A lot of people are just stomping to get the 24 hour back off changed. A small fix that would quiet a bunch of us. It would also send the message that at least the rosetta people are aware of our presence and listening to our concerns.

I am aware that my cpu power was a drop in the proverbial bucket, but the lack of response has forced me to move to other projects. I know rosetta will be fine without me, but I will also be fine without them.


Is there a way on our end to change this 24 hour back off or is it a BOINC client feature?
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