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Profile banditwolf

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Message 64703 - Posted: 1 Jan 2010, 17:45:21 UTC - in response to Message 64701.  

But how can we know if that's the issue when no one took 15 minutes sometime during the last week to let us know?

It seems a lot of projects aren't very interested in keeping their users updated much anymore. (atleast of the ones I have looked at) When I started a few years ago projects seemed a lot more grateful, listened and gave updates.
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Message 64706 - Posted: 1 Jan 2010, 18:29:34 UTC

Neil, since you have been with the project that long, do you need me to remind you that in all of the last 3 years, work has gone dry during the last week of the year? And that running out of work during a holiday period represents about 90% of all of the downtime for the project over most years?

I could have posted back on Dec. 22 that there's historically a high likelihood of running out of Rosetta work during the next 2 weeks. But what point would it serve? One doesn't know for certain what's going to happen. Past performance is not indicative of future results. VERY few people would read such a post, and I don't like to be pessimistic.

When the "official word" is not to be found, then you can very safely assume one of two things is occurring. Either everyone is scrambling frantically to resolve the problem and bring things back online, or, noone is able to access the system at the moment to post a message nor work on the problem until they get back to the lab. Either way, spreading speculation that the project "...may never come back" is really over the top. It just shows what you can prove when you extrapolate on a complete lack of information.

I can't address the problem, I am a volunteer, just as all of you are. And I am not able to post messages on the project homepage. But if you look at my last dozen posts or so, you'll see I've attempted to post in every thread mentioning lack of work. As you can see by the fact that there are now many threads on many boards about the same exact situation, please don't bother blaming me for not making a big red, locked, sticky thread attempting to explain the obvious. The existence of all of these threads (indeed every time such events occur) proves that people do not read them. And I have no insight in to when things will return to normal... other then my historical insight which predicts work will be flowing by noon pacific time on Monday.

I can't pour everyone an eggnog, nor light the fireplace, but if you think of anything else I can do on my end that could ease the tension, please let me know. Meanwhile, I personally have some work from another BOINC project. Just clicked the allow new work button and all was well.
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Profile Neil
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Message 64707 - Posted: 1 Jan 2010, 18:35:46 UTC - in response to Message 64699.  

I have six Q9550 systems...


Wow, you have six and I don't have any. My next processor will be able to handle SSSE4.1, especially if Boinc can take advantage of that. In the meantime:

My 1.8 GHz Celeron 430 and 1.6 GHz Core2Duo T5450 usually do 20 work units per day, combined. They did 3 on December 29th, 5 on the 30th, 0 on the 31st, 0 so far with six hours remaining for New Years UTC.

(Attached both to Malariacontrol.net on Dec 30th, because the apartment was starting to get cold.)

And for those who missed Scene 1, the week began with no credits being granted for a few days while work units came and went, otherwise normally. There was never any notice provided about that problem either, for instance something along the line of, "Sorry our Credit Granting Computer is down -- the problem is on our end..."

Instead, nothing.

When there's a glitch, it's not only felt by the organizers. It's also felt by the participants.

Back when I was a kid walking uphill in both directions and using Vacuum Tubes, I participated in Seti@Home The Original Show. One day, someone drove a backhoe through a fiber-optic cable and stopped production for a week. In a day or so, a notice went up on their Technical Notices webpage to let us know what was going on. We were assured a couple of times as the destruction was being repaired.

And if someone did something stupid like spill coffee into the SETI server, they would provide a notice that said something like, "We hate to say it, but Bob spilled his coffee into the server. We expect to get back into the swing in two days..."

It didn't matter what the problem was. We appreciated being told, and all was forgiven -- just because we were recognized as being a significant part of the loop.
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Message 64709 - Posted: 1 Jan 2010, 21:31:58 UTC - in response to Message 64701.  

My own insight is that it's Christmas and New Year and everyone on the project is having a well-deserved break and worrying about more important things, like their respective families, instead of washing their heads out about some downtime.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree 100%. Get it fixed, then go swill egg nog with the wife-n-kids. I have six Q9550 systems. I'm moving over to POEM because at the moment, they appear to be more grateful for donated computing power.

Then perhaps you missed that this is exactly what happened when the validation problem was fixed on Christmas Eve. And lo, they then went to swill that egg nog.

I'm sorry they haven't thrown themself at your feet in gratitude quite enough for you. Perhaps they'll beg your forgiveness on their return. If you could provide a spec for what an appropriate level of kow-towing would be I'm sure it would be appreciated. Personally I think we owe more to the project team for giving us the opportunity to use our unused clock cycles 360 days of the year than they owe us for the other 5. After all, we've always had the option of sharing our time among other projects so this only affects those who chose to limit ourselves here (as I do too, which is our responsibility).

Personally I don't micro-manage my usage here, but for those who do, what responsibility do you take for running out of work? I see some people noted the lack of new work and increased their runtimes to 24hrs once it was clear there'd be no resolution between Christmas and New Year. Did you do the same to eke out what work you were sure of? A quick look at your tasks shows you kept your "6 quads" racing through as if everything was normal, with a 3 hour runtime. That's a user responsibility too. Or irresponsibility if you like.

Given we made our choices in this matter it ill behoves either of us to cast undue aspersions at the project team. I'm not exactly delighted either, but I bear my part of the responsibility and realise I'm hardly in a position to throw the first stone.

Nothing to get your knickers in a twist about.

That's an antagonistic and unnecessary comment.

I think you'll find it was both whimsical and placatory, though admittedly I found your comment funnier than mine.

There is a connection between the organizers and the volunteers that is being disregarded, and I don't think it's being too assertive to say so directly.

I agree it's not too assertive. It is a little hysterical and a bit ridiculous though IMO.

If that were the issue, I wouldn't criticize. But how can we know if that's the issue when no one took 15 minutes sometime during the last week to let us know?

Of course no-one can know, but a quick look at the calendar would be the most obvious clue, don't you think? But you criticised anyway. Well done you.
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Message 64710 - Posted: 1 Jan 2010, 21:33:59 UTC - in response to Message 64707.  

Like Neil I, too, remember the backhoe at Seti@home. That said, I am not as disturbed as Neil about the current outage. My computers simply download WUs from other projects. What does disturb me, though, are the long breaks between posts by David Baker on the science board. I like reading about the progress Rosetta is making and I like to read about new ideas that will be tried out. I wish that Prof. Baker would spend a few minutes each month posting updates.

Mark
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Message 64713 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 1:49:02 UTC - in response to Message 64707.  

This is my first visit to this forum - BUT WOW - it's hard to believe how so many people can waste so much time typing - just to show how sarcastic or apparently PC (Politically Correct) they can be.

I happen to totally agree with what Neil says - YES it is the Christmas & New Year period (Or Festive Season) - HOWEVER this should be a stronger reason to consider others who assist your project througout the year.

I'm sure all involved are ADULTS - and a 15 second 'posting/warning' would not have delayed anyones 'well deserved break' - but would certainly have been appreciated.
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Sid Celery

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Message 64717 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 3:37:31 UTC

Blimey! Calm down ladies and gents, it's only a temporary lack of WUs over the holiday period! I get less hassle at work when there's a lack of overtime on offer! (Though the suggestion that R@H may _never_ come back is gloriously over the top, I agree).

Personally I will be devoting all my resources toward eggnog@home just as soon as I find out what it is. Happy New Year! ;)
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Message 64718 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 4:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 64709.  


I'm sorry they haven't thrown themself at your feet in gratitude quite enough for you. Perhaps they'll beg your forgiveness on their return. If you could provide a spec for what an appropriate level of kow-towing would be I'm sure it would be appreciated.


Your sarcasm is immature.

Personally I think we owe more to the project team for giving us the opportunity to use our unused clock cycles 360 days of the year than they owe us for the other 5. After all, we've always had the option of sharing our time among other projects so this only affects those who chose to limit ourselves here (as I do too, which is our responsibility).


No, I owe them nothing. I have read the grandiose plans about the project eventually hitting 150 TFlops, and I get excited for the accelerated progress that will bring. These clownish outages leave me conflicted that TPTB aren't serious, though. And that, is JMHO.

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Message 64721 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 5:41:15 UTC - in response to Message 64620.  

I think the problem is not at our end of the project, I hope that whoever does the data setup for processing gets back from holidays soon
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Message 64723 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 7:49:51 UTC

Perhaps, like others, I have split my resources between folding@home and rosetta@home. Since the Rosetta folks seem to be awol, we should consider reallocating the resources to other projects?

afterall, use it or lose it
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Message 64727 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 14:03:05 UTC - in response to Message 64723.  

Agreed, I'm on POEM now.

Perhaps, like others, I have split my resources between folding@home and rosetta@home. Since the Rosetta folks seem to be awol, we should consider reallocating the resources to other projects?

afterall, use it or lose it


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Message 64729 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 15:51:36 UTC - in response to Message 64717.  

Eggnog@home~!! I love it, and don't forget the sister program, Hangover@home, currently crunching on my systems as we speak...


Blimey! Calm down ladies and gents, it's only a temporary lack of WUs over the holiday period! I get less hassle at work when there's a lack of overtime on offer! (Though the suggestion that R@H may _never_ come back is gloriously over the top, I agree).

Personally I will be devoting all my resources toward eggnog@home just as soon as I find out what it is. Happy New Year! ;)


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Message 64730 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 16:52:08 UTC

It states on the homepage, under news, that the project has been shut down to make modifications as of December 23. Unlike the majority, I'll just figure that the project is being worked on or is at least still shutdown LIKE THE HOMEPAGE SAYS...
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Message 64733 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 18:13:21 UTC - in response to Message 64730.  

It states on the homepage, under news, that the project has been shut down to make modifications as of December 23. Unlike the majority, I'll just figure that the project is being worked on or is at least still shutdown LIKE THE HOMEPAGE SAYS...

It did come back up the 25th/26th as I got a stack of wus then. The outage may be a delayed result of what was changed on the 23rd.
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Message 64737 - Posted: 2 Jan 2010, 19:32:50 UTC

I just switch my 5 boxes to run World Community Grid projects. I did some research on the most favorable DC while R@H is down. WCG is one of them.
So I am happy to keep my boxes running.
I turned off my 5computers when I went on vacation. When I return today, I can not upload work. Need work units to run computers.
joseps
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Message 64743 - Posted: 3 Jan 2010, 1:29:20 UTC

running Einstein and Milky Way as backup to RAH.
I see that at the moment half of Rosie's systems are offline.
Only 1 work generator and some other things are down.
Got plenty of stuff to run while Rosie gets her act together again.
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Message 64745 - Posted: 3 Jan 2010, 5:15:03 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jan 2010, 5:15:44 UTC

I might beat the 10K mark in POEM@Home before R@H goes back online lol
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Message 64746 - Posted: 3 Jan 2010, 8:35:11 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jan 2010, 8:38:34 UTC

I see that a large number of workunits are queued, but few are ready for download. Is it possible that most, if not all, of the queued workunits are queued specifically for the workunit generator program that isn't running?

Also, the file-deleter program isn't running. Is it possible that this has allowed the disk drives to become so full that there isn't enough disk space to create workunits at the normal speed?
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Message 64765 - Posted: 4 Jan 2010, 1:13:54 UTC - in response to Message 64718.  

I'm sorry they haven't thrown themself at your feet in gratitude quite enough for you. Perhaps they'll beg your forgiveness on their return. If you could provide a spec for what an appropriate level of kow-towing would be I'm sure it would be appreciated.

Your sarcasm is immature.

100% Correct. I pitched it at the same level as your "I'm moving over to POEM because at the moment, they appear to be more grateful for donated computing power." Strange how you could recognise my parody of your comment, but you couldn't recognise the childishness of yours. Not grateful enough?

I have read the grandiose plans about the project eventually hitting 150 TFlops, and I get excited for the accelerated progress that will bring. These clownish outages leave me conflicted that TPTB aren't serious, though. And that, is JMHO.

Where on earth did you read this? Do you have a link? I doubt it very much.

It seems to me you got yourself worked up about a promise no-one ever made, then upset yourself because you think a few days downtime means this imaginary promise won't ever be realised. A more ridiculous self-manufactured indignance I struggle to imagine.

A pity, too, you didn't see fit to comment on your failure to manage your own remaining units. Nothing to do with you too, I suppose? But of course.

Sorry my sarcasm was so immature. I can't work out where that idea came from.
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Message 64769 - Posted: 4 Jan 2010, 2:55:54 UTC

Perhaps he meant this rather old thread?

https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=1269
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