Just a heads up for you folks.

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Jose

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Message 17119 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 9:16:59 UTC - in response to Message 17110.  

If you thought April's stats were interesting, you will love the next 30-40 days.
The XtremeSystems team is ramping up to try and overtake the good folks over at Free DC who are currently in the #1 position.
This will be one heck of a chase for us as Free DC is the premier DC team with as dedicated and good a group of people as you will find anywhere.
You might want to bring in some LN2 to keep your routers and switches cool as I have a feeling the teams will be working them as never before!<BG>
Best Wishes to both teams!
XS_Movieman



Great!!! is this in part responsible for the increase in credits as Jose suggests? I've been puzzled about where it has come from as boincstats has not shown much of an increase in the active users lately.

we will be sure to have lots of jobs queud this weekend!



Dave : You better have a lot of more work units ready. For 3 days in a row the XtremeSystems Team has reached the 400,00 credits mark and today it looks like the team will reach will break the 500,000 mark and is poised to break the 600,000; 700,000; 800,000 ;900, 000 with the team goal being breaking the 1,000,000 mark.

BTW the DCs are not playing dead and they have ramped up and from a cursory check I have done of other teams stats many teams are ramping up. It seems the CASP 7 trilas have been a great motivator.


Keith and David are convinced we are prepared. With the AP article coming out as well, it could be a big weekend! but believe me, we need it, as a whole bunch of new casp targets were released this week, and some are very large. The reduction in the sizes of the files we send out has reduced the load on our servers considerably--everything seems to be running really smoothly.

A question for members of the teams vying for dominance--Rom is currently working on an a benchmark internal to the rosetta code that will ultimately used in calculating credits. would you like to see this on rosetta@home sooner or later?



The sooner the better!!!!
This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato
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Jose

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Message 17120 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 9:22:53 UTC - in response to Message 17114.  

Rom is currently working on an a benchmark internal to the rosetta code that will ultimately used in calculating credits.

If the benchmark is internal to Rosetta, we can invite the Russian team that held first place in FaD to see if they can catch up to the production levels of the current top teams.. they were waiting for a lower bandwidth usage (which we've achieved) and a fair benchmark that was the same for every OS.
So it can have effects beyond just the current top teams..

I'm not a member of one of the top producing teams, however.

Begging/pimping/soliciting/recruiting/bribing people to teamhop/borging, etc - no matter what you do to increase your team stats - someone will call foul. :) And while I found the email amusing (since I'm on another team), the XS email did seem to be well written to encourage people to run Rosetta during CASP. And the email will no doubt do much more than my signature on our team's forums where I challenge everyone there to beat my single Rosetta machine and make me last place on the team ranks.



Please remember that most of the XtremeSystems members are not into DC. So the email was an attempt to get them into the DC mood . and Yes. it was well written and yes, it helped spread the news about Rosetta. See for many people Rosetta is a black stone :), the team members that sent the email wanted to increase the awareness of what is being done by Dave and the Rosetta Scientists.

This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato
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Message 17121 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 9:31:36 UTC - in response to Message 17101.  

Evidently, I registered at the Extreme forums.. and recently received an email begging me to do my part for their team. *grin*
The folks at Free-DC haven't reached that level of desperation, yet. :)


REALLY! We don't need to stoop to that sort of shameless pimping.

We'll just quietly add a few more 100s of GHz of crunching power to maintain our total dominance.



First of all: nice doggie. That said :P LOL LOL

Please don't be quiet!!!! The more we do to advertise the "fight". The more "baiting", the more excitement we will create and I think the more people will get interested and join the Rosetta effort.

The computing power of the Free DC Team is legendary. The level of respect for your team is high. I know this competition is going to make both team proud and is going to be remembered for years in the annals of Distributed Computing History


So let the rumble continue!!!! At the end it is Rosetta and science that will win.
This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato
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Message 17122 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 9:42:00 UTC - in response to Message 17086.  

In order to enjoy this battle even longer and to have a nice Tflop boost in the coming weeks perhaps a few user can decide to support Free-DC. Right now it seems XtremeSystems uses a shock and awe tactic, but the question is can they sustain this output? ;-)


In April we reached the 300,000 a day 13 times, We have hit the 400,000 level or more 4 days in a row with 543,000+ yesterday. At the rate we are doing today we will have high numbers aggain. We are doing our best to sustain and improve the level of production :)

Let's not talk about shock and awe tactics : I have threatened to streak my neighborhood every time we raise the production level by a 100,000 :P Since we hit the 500,000 level I just did that. Well it was dark and everyone was sleeping ..I sacred the living daylights of a few stray dogs that saw me LOL LOL . It looks like the 600,000 a day level mark is coming up today...

This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
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Message 17135 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 14:37:00 UTC

33 TFLOPS go baby go!!
Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
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David Baker
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Message 17137 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 14:52:21 UTC - in response to Message 17117.  

[
Dr. Baker: Perhaps you'd like to come over and register at our forum.
I know for a fact that a post from you to the guys would do more than I can describe to motivate the troops. www.xtremesystems.com
You and/or any of your staff would be more than welcome anytime.
Sincerely,
XS Movieman


Thanks for the invite--I'll visit this weekend and put up a post.
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Message 17145 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 16:35:14 UTC

I can see it now... posts by drill Sargent Baker taunting "... is THAT all you GOT!? *I* thought you folks had more determination than THAT! At THIS rate, the COWS are gonna come home! What does XS STAND for anyway!?... Extra SLOTHS!? Now DROP and give me 20! (...models!)"
Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
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Message 17149 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 17:04:17 UTC - in response to Message 17145.  

I can see it now... posts by drill Sargent Baker taunting "... is THAT all you GOT!? *I* thought you folks had more determination than THAT! At THIS rate, the COWS are gonna come home! What does XS STAND for anyway!?... Extra SLOTHS!? Now DROP and give me 20! (...models!)"

There's an old expression that I adhere to(most of the time):
"You get more with honey than you do with vinegar"
I treat the guys on our forum with courtesy and respect. Doesn't matter if they have one old PC making 50 points a day or a "farm" of a 100..
They all are worthy of respect and courtesy. I consider them friends that I just havn't met face to face.
XS Movieman
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Message 17151 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 17:13:43 UTC - in response to Message 17149.  

"You get more with honey than you do with vinegar"

You're right. I'm sure Dr. Baker will post something more like "We just love the work you fine people are doing here with your computers, and you're all such wonderful people. ...Now if you could just step 'er down a little on the throttle and get that resource share up to 400, we'll really go to town here."

I treat the guys on our forum with courtesy and respect. Doesn't matter if they have one old PC making 50 points a day or a "farm" of a 100..

I CERTAINLY do the same (even if they might not be "guys" :) If you can't be helpful, without being condescending or rude, then stay the heck out of it. That's my thought. I'm just having a little fun here with this thread that now belongs in the Cafe :)

Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
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Message 17154 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 17:32:04 UTC - in response to Message 17101.  
Last modified: 26 May 2006, 17:41:09 UTC

Evidently, I registered at the Extreme forums.. and recently received an email begging me to do my part for their team. *grin*
The folks at Free-DC haven't reached that level of desperation, yet. :)


REALLY! We don't need to stoop to that sort of shameless pimping.

We'll just quietly add a few more 100s of GHz of crunching power to maintain our total dominance.

Shameless pimping? I promised myself that I'd be on my best behavior when over here so I will speak politely.
I don't see anything the matter with what we did and there was no begging in the letter. I know, I wrote it and then some of our better "layout artists" set it up and added a few things and made it better IMO. I tend to write like I speak, one long sentence.It's been over 30 years since I was in school and I admit to having forgotten some of the details of proper letter writing.
IF what we did is "shameless pimping" then I will gladly go and buy a wide rimmed hat and a feather boa to wrap around my neck because I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.
Your comments sound more like sour grapes to me and one other thing:
You mentioned "We'll just quietly add a few more 100s of GHz of crunching power to maintain our total dominance."..It must be coming from someone other than you as your 163RAC just "ain't gonna cut the mustard son"
I also remember reading that "the smallest dogs bark the loudest because thats all they can do"..You prove that point.
Enjoy your day,
XS Movieman

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Jose

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Message 17161 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 18:39:34 UTC
Last modified: 26 May 2006, 18:58:33 UTC

Okies!!!

I am going to try to be the peacemaker here. I am not going to regret it and just in case some one wants to flame me do yourself a favor and Google peacemaker (it is among other things a nice gun) .

If sending a letter to all of your team members or to the people that have registered to use your team's message board is shameless pimping. So be it!!!

But shameless pimping or not : the strategy is working, team members that didn't know bupcous about Distributed Computing and much less about Rosetta are joining and are crunching. Some of us are but a gnat when compared to the super crunchers we have in our teams and that crunch in others but, big or small, clunky or super efficient we have been welcomed and encouraged to participate. That is the spirit of Distributed Computing. This may come to a shock to some of you but XtremeSystems is not a "DC Only Group" unlike other teams here. As a matter of fact, a very small percentage of our members are into DC. So a few of our Rosetta Team members got the idea of asking all to give Rosetta a chance.

In addition to helping the Rosetta project and science, there is another practical reason for members of the XtremeSystems groups to try Rosetta : it gives them a very good way of checking their overclocked systems for stability: If they survive Rosetta, their system are indeed very stable. So we are using this fact to promote Rosetta. Again if this is shameless begging, so be it!! I will repeat again: It's working.

Agnus it seems that you are not happy with the fact that we are noisy, ornery and do things in our team other than DC ( I am into Voodoo dolls ). We know we are not everyone favorite Ice Cream flavor but, please do not disrespect us. One thing we at the Xtremesystems Rosetta Team made clear when we decided to challenge the Free DC Dominance was that the Free DC Team as a team and their members deserve our respect for they have earned it. Free DC has been a model of what a team should be.

We entered the challenge knowing it was not going to be easy: Free DCs computer power generating capacity is legendary. So, as to your statement that ""We'll just quietly add a few more 100s of GHz of crunching power to maintain our total dominance. I say: do so!!!!! bring more power into the fray!!! The more the better.

Don't you get it?!!! The Xtremes/DC match is but a historical accident in the Rosetta Project's history as it was the Stampede/BBQ saga this April. What is important is that at the end regardless of who is first, second or 1 millionth in the ranking: more models are produced, more science is generated.

The challenge is but a fun way of doing it : A fun way of promoting Rosetta and a fun way of getting more people to crunch and from what I have seen in the production numbers a successful way.

So please instead of being a sour puppy... Enjoy!!! and most important crunch!!!! for alas, you have a BBQ friendly name and the grills are still hot from the BBQ ( Subtle attempt at joke).

XXDDT: it seems you didn't get Feet1st subtle sense of humor regarding the "sloths"and the "Give me 20's" .

That clear:

Let the rumble continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crunch till you drop!!!!!





This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato
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Message 17164 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 19:25:34 UTC - in response to Message 17161.  

XXDDT: it seems you didn't get Feet1st subtle sense of humor regarding the "sloths"and the "Give me 20's".

I generally avoid humor on the boards, because my humor is often sarcastic, and that sort of humor doesn't read properly, it has to be spoken to come across as intended.

I thought it was safe in this thread the way things are going :)

XSDDT, your country is just listed as "international", so perhaps it didn't translate as intended into your native language. My quotes (") and reference to a drill Sargent was just intended to reference what a team coach might say to the XS team to try and spur a better performance on the playing field.

Sloths is actually a word Jose has been using sometimes in posts when his machine proceeds slowly.

I certainly intended no disrespect to XS. I was just trying to joke around about how to rally more support from the team.
Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
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Jose

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Message 17168 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 19:29:30 UTC - in response to Message 17164.  
Last modified: 26 May 2006, 19:31:04 UTC

XXDDT: it seems you didn't get Feet1st subtle sense of humor regarding the "sloths"and the "Give me 20's".

I generally avoid humor on the boards, because my humor is often sarcastic, and that sort of humor doesn't read properly, it has to be spoken to come across as intended.

I thought it was safe in this thread the way things are going :)

XSDDT, your country is just listed as "international", so perhaps it didn't translate as intended into your native language. My quotes (") and reference to a drill Sargent was just intended to reference what a team coach might say to the XS team to try and spur a better performance on the playing field.

Sloths is actually a word Jose has been using sometimes in posts when his machine proceeds slowly.

I certainly intended no disrespect to XS. I was just trying to joke around about how to rally more support from the team.



Hey Feet!!! You are too kind. I have used worst names for my computer.

Oh I am going to regret this.... Yes the Movieman comes from a foreign country : New Hampshire.

I have the strange feeling he realized you meant well. I told him.

Hugs!!!
This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato
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Message 17169 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 20:34:30 UTC - in response to Message 17164.  

XXDDT: it seems you didn't get Feet1st subtle sense of humor regarding the "sloths"and the "Give me 20's".

I generally avoid humor on the boards, because my humor is often sarcastic, and that sort of humor doesn't read properly, it has to be spoken to come across as intended.

I thought it was safe in this thread the way things are going :)

XSDDT, your country is just listed as "international", so perhaps it didn't translate as intended into your native language. My quotes (") and reference to a drill Sargent was just intended to reference what a team coach might say to the XS team to try and spur a better performance on the playing field.

Sloths is actually a word Jose has been using sometimes in posts when his machine proceeds slowly.

I certainly intended no disrespect to XS. I was just trying to joke around about how to rally more support from the team.

I assure, my comments were not meant for you.I was replying to the other person and your quote was in his comments.
My apologies.I had/have no disagreement with you whatsoever.
XS Movieman
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Message 17176 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 21:39:08 UTC

When the last Stampede happened over at FaD, the DPC were being referred to as The Dutch Mad Cows; and were being teased about how their BBQ was guaranteed.

One of the devious Dutch Power Cows mentioned that even if they lost, the BBQ would ensure that they'd be able to take over most of the Free-DC systems for next time. (The baiting and taunts were very entertaining..)

Responding with comments about how you've awoken a sleeping army that is going to turn the other team into roadkill would be more along the lines of the playful banter that was most likely meant by others.

Regardless, getting back to Dr. Baker's request - would having a fair and equal benchmark in the Rosetta client for all OSes improve the competition amongst the top teams? i.e. the Linux clients finally getting the same number of points off the default client as Windows clients get from our default client? Eliminating the differences between Linux default client, windows default client, and the optimized clients and providing a level playing field.






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Message 17185 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 22:23:29 UTC

Did anyone bother to tell FreeDC that they were in a competition? It does not look like they have ramped up any yet. The team RAC has not gone up very much. It looks like they will be overtaken in a few weeks if they don't move to defend.
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Message 17191 - Posted: 26 May 2006, 23:34:43 UTC

Yes, they know.
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Message 17209 - Posted: 27 May 2006, 3:59:59 UTC

I am all for a new way to index machine performance as long as it does it right.

This most likely means that you get 1 credit for every work unit completed and the only factor that may ultimately affect this will be WU length (ie: 2 hours vs 24 hours).. the same way seti@home operated before BOINC.

People like me on dial-up would feel the pain.. a long and slow burning pain ;)


But what about other issues? Like being "over comitted"? Why dont we assign work units as needed rather than overfilling people so that when they run out of time they dont get credit for completing assigned WU's?
This signature was annoying.
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Message 17217 - Posted: 27 May 2006, 5:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 17209.  

I am all for a new way to index machine performance as long as it does it right.

This most likely means that you get 1 credit for every work unit completed and the only factor that may ultimately affect this will be WU length (ie: 2 hours vs 24 hours).. the same way seti@home operated before BOINC.

People like me on dial-up would feel the pain.. a long and slow burning pain ;)


But what about other issues? Like being "over comitted"? Why dont we assign work units as needed rather than overfilling people so that when they run out of time they dont get credit for completing assigned WU's?

The user is in control of how many work units are loaded on the client machine. If you use your time parameter, and connection interval correctly, you could work the same work unit for 24 hours. Or you could run 24 work units in 24 hours. This assumes that the protein is small enough to create a model in under an hour.

People get over committed by downloading work and then raising the time setting a significant amount. To avoid that, raise the time limit when your queue is low on work units. Then the system will load less work, and will not over commit based on the work it already has.

This time setting was put in specifically for modem users. There is a FAQ explaining its use. As for credit, it is my understanding that all work will get credit. Rosetta is not like other projects in that regard. There is a FAQ for that too.

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Message 17229 - Posted: 27 May 2006, 8:32:27 UTC - in response to Message 17110.  

A question for members of the teams vying for dominance--Rom is currently working on an a benchmark internal to the rosetta code that will ultimately used in calculating credits. would you like to see this on rosetta@home sooner or later?


This will solve many problems and level the playing field and will be welcomed by most participants. The only problem is how many credits are you going to reward? The current optimized BOINC clients claim about 3 times the credit the regular BOINC client does. All competing teams use only the optimized client.If you adjust the new credit system according to the regular BOINC client all users who run the optimized client will see there average credit dropping to one third of past numbers. That causes a lot of frustration. Seti changed recently to an internal benchmark and there is much frustration in the boards from the credit hunters since it caused their RAC to drop.

Climateprediction issues credit per WU but they reward more credit per WU than a regular BOINC client would claim. I think you need to do the same for Rosetta as well.
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