Maybe I'm more of a laid back kind of person... I fail to see why people need to know exactly when the new credit system will be implemented. Is this so people can game the system, and gain the most credits before the change and not lose credits after the change has been made? Because you want to game the system, then them not communicating exactly when becomes a failure to communicate? Everyone knew a change was coming (and soon), so I do not view it as a failure to communicate.

Seems to me that people care more about their stats than MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.


The credit system will be fine. I propose a simple mathematical answer (here) if they choose to wait for XX results before granting credit.

We keep doing that, and you keep deleting the threads. Stop it. You are forcing us to keep repeating ourselves.

Than blame those who flame. If there is a certain limit of flames in a thread it becomes uncontrollable and has to be deleted - togehter with dozens of interesting and constructive posts.

How can I do that when you keep deleting the threads? I have no idea who or why they were deleted, other than "somebody thought somebody else did something bad".

...or worse yet, "somebody is trying to hide something."

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Reno, NV
Team: SETI.USA

Seems to me that people care more about their stats than MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

You are a perfect example (that isn't a slam, but simply pointing it out) of those who do not understand the psyche of the hardcore DC crunchers who provide the majority of the power to these projects. The project scientists and developers fall into that group.

It's all about credits.

It's all about credits.

It's not about anything else but credits.

Sure - they might pick one project over another because it sounds more interesting, but they aren't contributing the time, effort, money and resources for the warm fuzzy feelings. It's COMPETITON - pure and simple.

They possibly aren't the numerical majority of the crunchers on a project, but they ARE the GHz majority.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

However if you think they just handled things improperly and can improve on it than you should write constructive and polite.

We keep doing that, and you keep deleting the threads. Stop it. You are forcing us to keep repeating ourselves.

Than blame those who flame. If there is a certain limit of flames in a thread it becomes uncontrollable and has to be deleted - togehter with dozens of interesting and constructive posts.

It's still comes down to "it's EASIER to delete (hide) the thread, than clean it up and retain the good posts". Laziness

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

the new credit system awards the producer in luck system ive seen the credits granted and this is a joke really.

i have a constructive criticism for you, realise we the crunchers are the base of this project without us the project dies, if we think a part of the project is flawed, the project managers should adress it, we hold the share me make the work and we dont see the benefits as we should? i think you guys really dont appreciate what we are doing here.

But that is what the project currently does - adressing the concerns of the user. They created a new credit system, users where not happy, they change it and tweak it and they listen to proposals how to make it really fair. What is your constructive criticism in this post? They should listen to the user base. They do! But the user base does not speak with one voice. So they need to seek a compromise. Or do you wanted to say, they should listen to the position of XS because we are the big guys?

if you really want to know what the user base has to say just make a poll of several solutions to 1 problem the people vote, the project resolve.

take like example big companies they make shareholder meeting to explain what they are doing with the shareholders money they get together the big guys and make a public statement for the small guy and if the managment of the company is doing the wrong things you see how everyone sells....

think in that way and you will see that you need to keep the big teams next to you to have the computing power you need, you piss the big guys and you are left with almost nothing.... really sad the managment of the project fails to see this and they are very smart people

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No- not in the context of the discussions here over the last few months where everyone using the optimized client was catagorized as a "cheat" by the other camp.

This is degenerating back to the optimised/not optimised, old credit/new credit debate, but then I think that's inevitable because that's the root of all the problems and discussion.

The above quote has been stated over and over, and I've repeatedly stated that it's not true, but seem to have been ignored every time. I don't doubt that some consider the use of optimised clients cheating - some have stated it on the boards - but a few people have turned this into an us vs them debate.

I didn't agree with your opinions but I'm not on anyone's side on the subject - I have my own opinions and have expressed them (without flaming), and have never called anyone a cheat, so the quote above is an oversimplification that's the root of a lot of tension. There were other reasons beyond the use of optimised clients for requesting the backdating etc and yet these were ignored - its always posted as optimised camp vs boinc-parity camp. It was never that simple.

I think another major problem is that there's a been misinformation being spread as fact, or errors that haven't been cleared up, both on these boards and elsewhere (although the corrections were usually quite prompt and complete here).

I understand that some people haven't been happy with the communications here, and some people may leave because of it. I understand that almost everyone involved in the debate is interested in the stats for the competition (which is great for the project), and some have been concerned by what they've perceived as a flawed credit system, but IMO questioning the integrity or the project team is unfair and immature.

The big piture is this: the Bakerlab are working on groundbreaking research. Spending all their time trying to please a small number of, albeit large contributers (the majority of work comes from those who will never look at these message boards, or their stats), should not be as high on their radar as many of you seem to think! I don't want to offend anyone, but I'd be disappointed if the Bakerlab have ANY consideration other than reaching the target of Rosetta being involved in a biomedical revolution. I accept we are a tool in reaching that, and things such as stats are important to get the most from the DC community, but they are only a tool and there are more important issues.

I also accept that communications haven't been the best, but again only in relation to the stats. The communications on a scientific front are second to none. The team have made mistakes and admit that - (as someone posted yesterday it's partly because the DC community isn't particularly logical and these guys are!) - but their intentions have always been right.

Lets not forget that if there is a mistake with the stats it can always be corrected.

cheers
Danny

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OK, so if the credit system is cleaned up and the kinks are worked out, then what? If they communicate everything, then what?

It seems to me like hardcore crunchers get burnt out and then find a reason not to like it. For example, the more hours you put into a MMORPG, the more dissatified you become after a certain point. My best friend plays Everquest and sees this all the time. People play a LOT, it becomes less rewarding for them, and then they find all the reasons they don't like it. What he found is if he backs away and takes a break (or ignores it as he crunches), then he can come back to it and gain more enjoyment. I admit I check my stats daily, but I really want to check them weekly. I'm too anxious about them.

Let's say project staff changed and communicated and acted in a way that even pleases the military types. Then people are going to find something that they don't like. What if they focus processing power on HIV vaccines and all the cancer survivors get ticked because their issue is temporarily going to the back burner?

My girlfriend just moved in with me and she is having problems accepting my quirks. If we are to move forward together, she ultimately has to accept them. She could go from person to person and not accept their quirks, and this would not serve her. People go from project to project and don't accept their idiosyncracies and I don't think this serves them as people. I still accept them though :)

My girlfriend just moved in with me and she is having problems accepting my quirks. If we are to move forward together, she ultimately has to accept them. She could go from person to person and not accept their quirks, and this would not serve her.

That is blatant sexual discrimination and needs deleting now ! Any comments about that to carl at teddies.be

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

Carl, thanks for putting a smile on my face :)

I don`t find it funny and I know a lot of females don`t either. My wife was outraged. Howether this discussion is not on topic !

she ultimately has to accept them

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

OK whatever dude. In the U.S. (as opposed to the UK), "quirks" means peculiar aspects of your personality. It's in no way sexist because the same applies to me and to everyone. Hopefully the people in our lives ultimately accept us, regardless of what minor faults we have.

"I want to take a picture of some apples, but they will have to be red." If the apples aren't red, then they're not in the picture.

she ultimately has to accept them

Taking that phrase out of context seems like a major part of the problem with communication with the project. We users seem to be reading whatever we want into statements made by project staff, jumping to conclusions, and rioting without even giving them the chance to clarify their statements.

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... without even giving them the chance to clarify their statements.

Maybe that's a problem with not enough clear, concise information being provided, and leaving room for interpretation.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

Seems to me that people care more about their stats than MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

At last, you've see the lightbulb ;)

It's so true, live with the fact that most of the people, who are crunching, lives in that box you have created.

I'm one of them, I know I'm a loser, I'll throw me from the bridge for that, but first I want DPC be the number one on all projects, only then I'll find me a bridge.

No DC community without descent stats, simple like that :D

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Seems to me that people care more about their stats than MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

At last, you've see the lightbulb ;)

It's so true, live with the fact that most of the people, who are crunching, lives in that box you have created.

I'm one of them, I know I'm a loser, I'll throw me from the bridge for that, but first I want DPC be the number one on all projects, only then I'll find me a bridge.

No DC community without descent stats, simple like that :D

Let me know what bridge and i'll race you to it :D

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"I want to take a picture of some apples, but they will have to be red." If the apples aren't red, then they're not in the picture.

she ultimately has to accept them

Taking that phrase out of context seems like a major part of the problem with communication with the project. We users seem to be reading whatever we want into statements made by project staff, jumping to conclusions, and rioting without even giving them the chance to clarify their statements.

Why do you want to take a picture of some apples Benny ?

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OK whatever dude. In the U.S. (as opposed to the UK), "quirks" means peculiar aspects of your personality. It's in no way sexist because the same applies to me and to everyone. Hopefully the people in our lives ultimately accept us, regardless of what minor faults we have.

Don't worry it means the same here in the UK and I knew what you meant :)

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the new credit system awards the producer in luck system ive seen the credits granted and this is a joke really.

i have a constructive criticism for you, realise we the crunchers are the base of this project without us the project dies, if we think a part of the project is flawed, the project managers should adress it, we hold the share me make the work and we dont see the benefits as we should? i think you guys really dont appreciate what we are doing here.

But that is what the project currently does - adressing the concerns of the user. They created a new credit system, users where not happy, they change it and tweak it and they listen to proposals how to make it really fair. What is your constructive criticism in this post? They should listen to the user base. They do! But the user base does not speak with one voice. So they need to seek a compromise. Or do you wanted to say, they should listen to the position of XS because we are the big guys?

Here we go again.... Nice.

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OK, so if the credit system is cleaned up and the kinks are worked out, then what? If they communicate everything, then what?

It seems to me like hardcore crunchers get burnt out and then find a reason not to like it. For example, the more hours you put into a MMORPG, the more dissatified you become after a certain point. My best friend plays Everquest and sees this all the time. People play a LOT, it becomes less rewarding for them, and then they find all the reasons they don't like it. What he found is if he backs away and takes a break (or ignores it as he crunches), then he can come back to it and gain more enjoyment. I admit I check my stats daily, but I really want to check them weekly. I'm too anxious about them.

Let's say project staff changed and communicated and acted in a way that even pleases the military types. Then people are going to find something that they don't like. What if they focus processing power on HIV vaccines and all the cancer survivors get ticked because their issue is temporarily going to the back burner?

My girlfriend just moved in with me and she is having problems accepting my quirks. If we are to move forward together, she ultimately has to accept them. She could go from person to person and not accept their quirks, and this would not serve her. People go from project to project and don't accept their idiosyncracies and I don't think this serves them as people. I still accept them though :)

This has nothing to do with burnout.I've been running this project exclusively since Jan 11. Never bothered to come to these forums except once or twice until app 4-5 weeks ago when our rep to rosetta informed me that a small group was here with an agenda to change everything around to suit their perception of how things should be run. I came here, heard my team constantly being called cheaters and saw no response from the developers at all to put a stop to it.
Dr. Baker was asked both in email and live when he posted at the XS forum and did nothing to address it. All it would have taken is a simple message from him to them to stop it.
This is the point of contention and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
How can you communicate with someone that isn't willing to communicate back in straight talk?
Movieman

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What seems a bit odd to me is David Baker asked questions at XS and is now blanking the people there. Why ask in the first place, if he had no intention of listening ? Does'nt exactly inspire confidence.

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