Ralph seems to have stopped giving out work. I don't know if "round one" is over or not, but thought some of you who aren't participating might like to see what I've gotten for work. Note: claimed credit is based on the benchmark calculations, Granted credit is what the server gives based on models. It appears from the few I recieved that the number of models varies greatly on the same processor.
Gosh, I hope I shrunk the pic enough.

Ok first of all I really dont like seeing SETI and Rosetta in the same sentance. They are 2 different projects and point systems so leave the sepprate.

I honestly dont understand why starting from scratch is a problem. We know you did the points, we know we can do them again. This is not costing you anymore money in any way. I myself love the competition.. Go ahead zero me and keep your points cuz you know what... I'll pass you again and again. I am getting really tired of all the compaining from you guys just crunch the project and get on with your life. Stop looking at the top computers and what client they are running and worry about yourself. Xtremesystems is a very dedicated team and we spend more money than you can imagine to get where we are today. I am not saying non of you guys are spending any money... But my biggest issue here is all the bitching and complaining. Did you see us complain when we had to remove 3.5mil points cuz we knew it was the right thing. NO. We just crunched harder and got more members. Do you SETI guys go on their official website and complain that you dont like this or that or someone's computer is faster so they must be cheating.... Just face the fact that we are faster and always will be optimized or not!

EXCACLY my point - you appear to have started Rosetta a few months ago, have a total RAC of 120, and what - a total of 80 credits -
Yes, you would not care - - you are what we call a ZERO RACer.
You have not spent not even a single dollar, euro, etc.. on the project. you have not investment in time nor money. Therefore you would not care if you are zeroed out.
And as for doing the credits again.. I don't WANT to do them again- that is the most stupid thing I have heard in a long time.
On the other hand - there are those that have invested time and money into the project and to just toss out those accomplishments are not only absurd but could very well be project damning. As I know that I would not be back, and there are others, many others that would just leave and go crunch for SIMAP or QMC or something else.

As far as SETI and Rosetta being different projects I agree - but there MUST be a cross project equalization of credit systems. That is one of BOINC's features, the abilty to crunch several projects and be granted similar credit for these project.

Don't be negative towards other project team, if SETI.USA were to turn focus to Rosetta - it would stomp and in no time be the number 1 team here. People crunch what interests them. I am interested in many things so I crunch many projects. And a fair cross project equalized credit system is important.

Are you new to DC ? I have been crunching DC since May of 1999 -

njkid32 is the owner of the only Kentfield based cruncher at this moment in Rosetta. He is also the owner of one of the fastest Conroes in XtremeSystems ( His rigs are lovingly called Clark (as in Clark Kent and Louise) That Kentfield based rig is the top ranked computer in the project. If you dont see his credits under his njkid name it is because his machines crunch mostly for one of the subteams at XtremeSystems.

I am tired of the whole optimized vs non optimized clients thing. specially the continuous use of the word cheating. This is the last time you are going to hear me say this: AS LONG AS THE USE OF OPTIMIZED CLIENTS IS NOT EXPLICETLY PROHIBITED IN A PROJECT , THEIR USE IS NOT CHEATING. Specially since the open nature of the BOINC code allows for changes and modifications in the code.

So why don't project leaders prohibit the use of the optimised client?
According to posts on seti@home forum, at least the source code of the 5.5.0 was not available, which means that no one except the code writer cannot know what the application does. Even more without publishing source code distributing the software violates GPL. I'm not sure whether even using the software violate it or not, though.

You know what I find interesting : everybody whines about a certain type of optimized client but no one speaks about the Mac optimized clients and there are mac clients and MAC clients.

there MUST be a cross project equalization of credit systems. That is one of BOINC's features, the abilty to crunch several projects and be granted similar credit for these project.

Same here. A few adjustments can go, but the completely different system cannot as far as this project applys BOINC framework at least, since the new system could change the relationship between crunching and 1 credit granted.

just annoyed to see interesting ideas buried in more long angry posts full of noise. Argh...

Me too. Moderators should do something here...

We should stop using BOINC

They say the best ideas are sometimes the easiest to implement.
I think Jose just said it well...
Stop using BOINC and many of the problems just disappear..
The cross project issue goes immediately. The people that crunch other projects that are interested in helping Rosetta can then do so without there being any effect on their BOINC scores and the people that just crunch Rosetta wouldn't care as the other projects are of no concern to them.
Rosetta could then be treated just as Folding at Home is, a separate project on it's own.
That isn't the only answer, but it is surely one that addresses a lot of the issues here.
Any solution that brings more people to Rosetta and also kills the complaints on all sides I am for.
As to how many would leave rosetta if BOINC were abandoned, that's something to consider. In the short term(0-30 days) there may well be a loss of total computing power, but I beleive that once word got out that here is a project with excellent goals, good manangement and a prioritized app, there are thousands that would come to Rosetta.
Something to think on anyway.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman
PS: Kevin: I should have mentioned that NJKID32 was on VNS. That was my oversight.
He runs that Kentsfield system, a conroe system and 2 others for us 24/7 and is a good friend of mine.
Unfortunately he has my Irish temper but a few less years than I have had to let it mellow some.
As I mentioned before, Deep Passions bring passionate responses so i hope you'll understand that when you read his posts.
Now as to what would happen if all of SETI USA came to Rosetta, now thats a confrontation that I'd like to see.
Remember one small point, XtremeSystems has over 28,000 registered members and only 200 or so that run Rosetta regularly. Many others there are involved in other projects but they all have one thing in common: They are the most driven group you have ever seen with more computing power than many nations.<BG>

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They say the best ideas are sometimes the easiest to implement.
I think Jose just said it well...
Stop using BOINC and many of the problems just disappear..
The cross project issue goes immediately. The people that crunch other projects that are interested in helping Rosetta can then do so without there being any effect on their BOINC scores and the people that just crunch Rosetta wouldn't care as the other projects are of no concern to them.

If they want their scores to be unaffected, then don't share that account id and use a different name. But then they aren't getting any credit on boinc stats for time spent computing. I think another concern would be if they wanted to do some on the other boinc programs and some rosetta, how to do the time sharing?

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Now that I'd love to see. Infact I would love to see ALL teams go head-to-head with 100% resources on rosetta.

regardless of which team wins, we all know who the big winner would be; ROSETTA! We just might reach that 150 tera-flop goal.

I say "Let the race begin"!

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Now that I'd love to see. Infact I would love to see ALL teams go head-to-head with 100% resources on rosetta.

regardless of which team wins, we all know who the big winner would be; ROSETTA! We just might reach that 150 tera-flop goal.

I say "Let the race begin"!

You and I both and we agree totally but why think of a paltry figure like 150 tera-flops..
I heard a line once and can't remember the author and it's possible that I'm not quoting him 100% but the point is the same:
"Set impossible goals for yourself so that when you've reached them you know you've done something meaningfull"
That's stuck with me for years and the older I get the more relevant it becomes..

They say the best ideas are sometimes the easiest to implement.
I think Jose just said it well...
Stop using BOINC and many of the problems just disappear..
The cross project issue goes immediately. The people that crunch other projects that are interested in helping Rosetta can then do so without there being any effect on their BOINC scores and the people that just crunch Rosetta wouldn't care as the other projects are of no concern to them.

If they want their scores to be unaffected, then don't share that account id and use a different name. But then they aren't getting any credit on boinc stats for time spent computing. I think another concern would be if they wanted to do some on the other boinc programs and some rosetta, how to do the time sharing?

Same way you'd do it if you wanted to crunch some of the time on Folding at home. Split the time however you want. Turn on BOINC sun,tues,thurs, Rosy the other days, or sun-wes on one and thurs-sat on the other..many options. Or run them together with the cpu limits set to 50% on each..
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

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We should stop using BOINC

Although this thread is way off topic now, I want to reply to this. The idea behind BOINC is excellent - rather than every lab having to re-invent the wheel in order to set up a DC project there is a ready made, free DC platform available. If it weren't for BOINC, Rosetta@home and the other BOINC projects would either not exist, or would have been a huge drain on resources to set up and maintain. I agree that BOINC isn't perfect, but we are seeing regular improvements. It can only help the small projects tap the huge (and growing) computer power that DC offers.

Let the scientists get on with the science...

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We should stop using BOINC

Although this thread is way off topic now, I want to reply to this. The idea behind BOINC is excellent - rather than every lab having to re-invent the wheel in order to set up a DC project there is a ready made, free DC platform available. If it weren't for BOINC, Rosetta@home and the other BOINC projects would either not exist, or would have been a huge drain on resources to set up and maintain. I agree that BOINC isn't perfect, but we are seeing regular improvements. It can only help the small projects tap the huge (and growing) computer power that DC offers.

Let the scientists get on with the science...

You have some good points and I agree, the idea behind boinc is excellent, it's the implementation that is bad. Anything that uses a artifical benchmark instead of the actual work done by the machine is a mistake. So it may be a platform but it doesn't accomplish what is needed from the platform except in an artificial way and badly at that.
If it was so good, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
To address your point of some of the projects not existing with out something like BOINC, I won't disagree, but we're talking unknown start-ups and Rosetta at this stage of the game certainly isn't in that category. Maybe BOINC or something like it is usefull to get projects off the ground until they have a large enough following and financial backing but that time has passed for Rosetta.I think Rosetta is out of the childhood stage and time to spread her winds and fly as an adult on her own.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

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Now that I'd love to see. Infact I would love to see ALL teams go head-to-head with 100% resources on rosetta.

regardless of which team wins, we all know who the big winner would be; ROSETTA! We just might reach that 150 tera-flop goal.

I say "Let the race begin"!

Let the race beging!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a rumble I would like to see. Yes the winner would be Rosetta.

BTW it could be a lot of fun too.. Challenges, taunts, team mascots, cheerleaders ( I would like to bring out my Braveheart costume and start practicing my Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedoooooom shout .)

mmciastro wrote:
Gosh, I hope I shrunk the pic enough.

If you save the image in .png format instead of .jpg and use indexed color palette optimized for internet the file would be even lot smaller. Also you could provide just link to the image and not use the img tags, but url tags.

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list of my results

XS_Vietnam_Soldiers wrote:
I think Rosetta is out of the childhood stage and time to spread her winds and fly as an adult on her own.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

I disagree. BOINC is the best thing ever happened to distributed computing. It's like one stop shopping mall for new people interested in scientific DC projects. Every time one of the projects gets promoted on the media and new people come to see what's this all about they see the whole list of projects available and might get interested in other projects too. Projects not under BOINC (like folding at home) will likely miss this free advertising.

There are estimated 700 million PCs worldwide. It's a huge potential.

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list of my results

XS_Vietnam_Soldiers wrote:
I think Rosetta is out of the childhood stage and time to spread her winds and fly as an adult on her own.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

I disagree. BOINC is the best thing ever happened to distributed computing. It's like one stop shopping mall for new people interested in scientific DC projects. Every time one of the projects gets promoted on the media and new people come to see what's this all about they see the whole list of projects available and might get interested in other projects too. Projects not under BOINC (like folding at home) will likely miss this free advertising.

There are estimated 700 million PCs worldwide. It's a huge potential.

Boinc open source is the reason whe are having all the issues here. Also it is the origin of the basic misconception that all DC projects are comparable and can be fit into an uniform results/credit cross referenceable standard.

Boinc open source is the reason whe are having all the issues here. Also it is the origin of the basic misconception that all DC projects are comparable and can be fit into an uniform results/credit cross referenceable standard.

I think the fact that it's open source is great, with the exception of the benchmark which is the root of the discontent. Fortunately this isn't going to be open source for much longer on Rosetta :D

Whether it's possible to award the same type of credits between different types of projects - I think it is possible, assuming all projects are CPU intensive, but it certainly isn't that way at the moment and needs some thought and work.

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XS_Vietnam_Soldiers wrote:
I think Rosetta is out of the childhood stage and time to spread her winds and fly as an adult on her own.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

I disagree. BOINC is the best thing ever happened to distributed computing. It's like one stop shopping mall for new people interested in scientific DC projects. Every time one of the projects gets promoted on the media and new people come to see what's this all about they see the whole list of projects available and might get interested in other projects too. Projects not under BOINC (like folding at home) will likely miss this free advertising.

There are estimated 700 million PCs worldwide. It's a huge potential.

Actually the orginal SETI is the best thing ever to happen to distributed computing, at least in my opinion.
Your right that when new people go to BOINC's website they do see a list of projects that are available and yes, they might get interested in other projects also. What we disagree on is that the BOINC website will be the only one that people will go to. A simple google search by the DC n00b will bring up other options. Your right, projects not under BOINC will likely miss this free advertising so by that logic how do you account for the HUGE amount of people that DO run Folding at home? Last time I looked they were doing pretty good for themselves. Why? If you have a good product with good goals, people will find you. Just like a good restraunt, word of mouth will do your advertising for you.
I'll take your word on the 700 million PC's worldwide, but if that number includes every P1 and AMD K6 still in existance it gives a false impression of the computing power available to DC projects.
I suspect if you were able to do a count of the PC's that are:
1)online
2)available,IE: Not government,or private business
3)usefull for more than a boat moring for a very small boat.
IE: a modern computer of at least P4-2000 or it's AMD equal.
So lets guess that 700 million number is closer to what?
I can't even guess, not even enough info to make an educated guess but we can say that it's substantially less than 700 million.
I'm not trying to be picky on this one point just trying to show that commonly accepted numbers can be misleading when you go to actually use that figure for anything in the real world.
Thanks for your time,
Movieman

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My apologies to NJKID32 - it is just when I see someone (as shown by their stats) that has not crunched or someone that by stats appears they have not invested anything into the project stating it is ok by them to zero out the credits and start over – it gets me worked up – I appreciate dedication to projects, and passionate responses show that dedication. But like I mentioned – I was unaware of his machines crunching on a different account, shows my newness to this project. I have on recently started crunching Rosetta after coming here from SETI.
As a team to team head on challenge it would be interesting to see - but since most of my team are dedicated SETI crunchers I don’t think it will happen. But as it stands – our two teams are nearly neck and neck for total BOINC daily credits – and many of our big power crunchers like Lazy and Larry have shut down most of their crunchers for the summer, when we were going full bore with SETI our top 5 crunchers alone were generating 400,000 credits a day. And I am not in those top 5, I am just a small fish in a big pond when it comes to SETI.USA.

I have on order 2 Kentsfield crunchers and 2 more Conroe’s, as well as a couple of the good ole standby boxes Pent D 950’s. I try to 3 or 4 crunchers a month as I find room to put them. My basement is getting kind of crowded nowdays, and my power bill is nearing the $1500 US a month mark due to the power consumption of the crunchers and air conditioning required.

However, I don’t think that stop using BOINC is a good idea, I like the idea of being able to crunch other projects that interest me and being able to manage them all from a single interface.

The fix would be to just correct the way credits are granted – correct it if necessary to be comaparible and compatible with the other BOINC DC projects. This can not be rocket science, and should not be that difficult. I.e. if E@H grants 1 credit for one FLOP(I am not sure of the calculation here) – so should Rosetta, so should SETI, so should Chess or any of the other projects out there.

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SETI.USA

Drop Boinc and many will leave IMO.

About 2.5 years ago I was doing Folding@Home and was not impressed. Back then I was still doing classic seti and it was a pain in the ass to be shutting down one project to let the other run and then doing it again and again. Finally I just said to hell with folding. Now that I run several projucts under Boinc for the last 2 years I would not even consider running a project if it did not run under Boinc. And I don't give a damn about credits, they are not good for anything in the material world. But I do like to see the increase in credits because it allows me to see that I'm doing valid work. I will never understand why anyone would get so worked up over these bloody credits, they are just numbers!!!

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98SE XP2500+ @ 2.1GHz Boinc v5.8.8

And God said"Let there be light."But then the program crashed because he was trying to access the 'light' property of a NULL universe pointer.

Credits to DC projects are like points in a video game. Sure, you can't spend either one and have no real value.

But, take the point systems out of video games and see what happens to the market. The same could be said about DC projects. Here on Rosetta were not only in a sort of points race, but the race itself lends itself to something far more valuable than a victory in a video game.

It would be interesting if a study group were allowed by a given arcade to go in a yank out and disable all scoreboards from all machines for one day and see how customers respond.

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Kevint, I apologize as well. I lost my temper and I dont like to do that... May I ask where your getting a kentsfield? Cuz as you prolly know they wont hit retail for another year or so.

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