CAN YOU HELP ROSETTA??

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Johnathon

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Message 12463 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 21:35:32 UTC

Vavega asked
who is in charge[feet1st], you or robert brooke?

Shouldnt it be project leader? Or Feet1st, as he started this :)?
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Johnathon

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Message 12464 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 21:47:05 UTC - in response to Message 12462.  
Last modified: 21 Mar 2006, 21:47:49 UTC


Yes, an installation package for Win and especially Linux (which has lots of new users, who aren\'t very knowledgeable in admin\'ing it), with Rosetta \"preconfigured\", like LHC did. But is it really necessary to put it on CD?


CD would allow easy distribution, and easy installation. We can packadge the CD with an autorun, which means that each user just selects their OS/CPU type, and gets a quick explaination on the workings of BOINC, whilst geting the right version of boinc, with pre-registration with Rosetta project quickly and easily.


Web page design: A link to the Rosetta website for people to \"Refer Rosetta to a friend\" is desired. The user clicks the link, enters some EMail addresses and a personal introductory message, and this is added to some \"boilerplate\" that describes the importance of the project, and getting more computing power working on it, and provides basic project information and URLs. And an EMail is zapped off. Or, alternatively, just develop some impressive boilerplate, click the link and an EMail is sent to the participant, which can then be forwarded by them to their friends.


I think this one needs a bit of thinking.

The problem I see with this, is that these kind of \"invite\" scripts, is that if they\'re left semi-open, so one the inviting user include some personal info, they\'ll definately be abused by spammers (you can\'t imagine how quickly they find a way to exploit those scripts). Which will get Rosetta\'s IPs blocked in RBLs.

Not to mention that the From:/Sender address needs to be from bakerlab.org (nowadays one can\'t spoof the Sender address, e.g. so I can have the script mail out with my OWN address) which some people might consider spam.

So we\'re left with a \"boilerplate\" message, in which case I think one should just

1/ email friends from one\'s own account
2/ just put a link in your \"signature\". I do this in all forums I take part


The script which I\'m making will use the person sending name (limit 15chars?), the e-mail sending to, the e-mail address of person inputing link, and name of person sending to (15 chars?).
All will be validated, if you dont input JUST a plain e-mail address, the script will fail you, and I\'m thinking log IP address and all details into a MySQL database... (preferably on project server, but could be on my personal host if nessesary). And not entering everything is not an option. The script I\'m setting up will be one page, with a switch on the submit post variable.
Is that enough?


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vavega
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Message 12465 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 21:49:02 UTC

hi jonathon!

i vote feets, as long as it doesn\'t go to his head and project leader does have a good ring to it.

the submission to NPR has been written up and sent. i\'ll check back later to see if there\'s anything else i\'m qualified to do.
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Profile Feet1st
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Message 12467 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 22:06:31 UTC - in response to Message 12458.  

feet1st where are you located? us or uk?


U.S. Rochester MN, home of the Mayo Clinic (which I see has collaborated on some papers with Dr. Baker... we may have to find some ways to leverage that)

i\'ve joined the yahoo group, just waiting to be approved


You\'re approved.

Vavega asked who is in charge[feet1st], you or robert brooke?


I am by no means trying to be in charge. Rather just trying to put my best efforts where my mouth is :) I have no formal affinity to Rosetta. I\'m just reacting to Dr. Baker\'s request to (as I understand it) take some of these ideas to the next level.

Right now it feels like we\'ve got a lot of people going in a lot of directions all at once (which is great!). I hope we can reign in the chaos a little by taking some of the volunteerism and collaboration over to the Yahoo! group, and posting back to Rosetta or Dr. Baker with prototypes, outlines, drafts, and revisions. This pipeing back to the project will help assure the message stays accurate, uniform and in-line with their objectives, contracts, grant conditions or whatever. So, I am firmly in the camp that the project leader is in charge, and all works are released to the world by them.

The hope is just that we can use good judgement and time they don\'t have to take some concepts through to completion with only occaisional review, and the final confirmation to go ahead on the part of the project leaders.

Ex: say we put together a wiz bang CD, we all love it! Greatest thing! In my view, we DON\'T release it to anyone until it gets a project approval, including how it will be distributed, confirmation any necessary copyrights, trademarks, patents are acknowledged, etc. etc. Will there be a charge for it? Will the proceeds go to Rosetta? Will Amazon do the distribution? All of these are valid questions to resolve. Hopefully the volunteers can present the whole enchilada in a comprehensive package back to the project leaders, and they can enthusiastically approve of the plan.

But is it really necessary to put it on CD?


I feel it IS necessary, it gives you the opportunity to provide sufficient additional information for people to feel comfortable with what they are installing, and, as I said, there ARE people that just WON\'T install from the web. But (yes, it\'s il-informed) they WILL install from a CD.

We can ALWAYS put a CD image on a website available for download too... once we have one :)
If having a DC project with BOINC is of interest to you, with volunteer or cloud computing resources, but have no time for the BOINC learning curve,
use a hosting service that understands BOINC projects: http://DeepSci.com
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Profile Dimitris Hatzopoulos

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Message 12471 - Posted: 21 Mar 2006, 22:42:40 UTC

I think it\'s great that so many people are eager to volunteer. Let\'s see how it works out.

As I\'ve said, I\'ve tried quite a few different approaches (to 1000s of people), but my results sofar were below my expectations. Many (but a lot less than I thought) people think \"it\'s a good idea\". But getting people to \"roll up their sleeves\" and actually install it (and keep it running! for longer than a week) on their PC is an entirely different issue.

In my experience, the best results are when someone in a GROUP (\"team\" etc) suggests it, e.g. DU join (I know about it, because they have a link to my DC page as many other DC groups have done, and it shows in my referrer logs), because people are likely to imitate and follow \"trends\".

Anyway, one more suggestions I would like to make is to write-up something for R@h at Wikipedia, which still is a \"stub\"

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Message 12486 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 3:42:41 UTC - in response to Message 12467.  

...We can ALWAYS put a CD image on a website available for download too... once we have one :)



For this DigitalRiver gets my vote. However, Apple has a section on their website where you can upload software for distributions and it is free.

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David Baker
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Message 12490 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 4:41:52 UTC

Wow--you all are great! it is really wonderful to see this level of support and enthusiasm! thanks, David
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Johnathon

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Message 12507 - Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 12:56:01 UTC

I\'m going to put a 5 second delay into the processing of the script - that way if somebody tries to use the script to send spam, they\'ll only be able to send 1 email every 5 seconds for each time they run their program.
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BennyRop

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Message 12551 - Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 6:15:59 UTC

To thwart automated programs, an online outfit I\'ve used - has multiple boxes to check for acceptance, plus pictures of various letters at strange angles on a messy background with lines and other garbage in the foreground. And you have to type in the 5 letters that are depicted on the picture.


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Profile Feet1st
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Message 12579 - Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 18:01:38 UTC - in response to Message 12415.  

Yep, Dutch Power Cows, it was created for the upcoming stampede, to help non-dc freaks easy install the rosetta client :)


Can anyone tell me how to reach the DPC? Or add a link to their automated installer? I don\'t speak Dutch, so didn\'t get far in following the team links.

Better yet, could one (or more!) of those in-the-know about that automated installer come join the Yahoo! volunteers group?
If having a DC project with BOINC is of interest to you, with volunteer or cloud computing resources, but have no time for the BOINC learning curve,
use a hosting service that understands BOINC projects: http://DeepSci.com
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Stwato

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Message 12583 - Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 20:59:05 UTC - in response to Message 12464.  


We can packadge the CD with an autorun, which means that each user just selects their OS/CPU type


This of course assumes that each user KNOWS what his CPU type is...

Just a thought

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vavega
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Message 12584 - Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 21:00:09 UTC

feets....

i tried registering for the DPC\'s bb and despite not knowing a lick of dutch managed to get a password mailed to me. my idea was to post there asking so alas no joy. in the meantime i found http://users.pandora.be/truyts/BOINC/rosetta.xml off their forum, it might be in there.
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R/B

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Message 12587 - Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 22:58:12 UTC - in response to Message 12551.  

To thwart automated programs, an online outfit I\'ve used - has multiple boxes to check for acceptance, plus pictures of various letters at strange angles on a messy background with lines and other garbage in the foreground. And you have to type in the 5 letters that are depicted on the picture.



Yep! That should do it. I\'ve noticed several online script games using that type of spam/bot prevention. To my knowledge it works wonderfully well. I read/saw something recently about how the best programs still have a difficult time interpreting those \'funny letters\'.

I\'ve got some other postings I want to make here later tonight. Past couple of days I haven\'t been able to make the time.
Founder of BOINC GROUP - Objectivists - Philosophically minded rational data crunchers.


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Message 12606 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 7:39:47 UTC - in response to Message 12579.  

Yep, Dutch Power Cows, it was created for the upcoming stampede, to help non-dc freaks easy install the rosetta client :)


Can anyone tell me how to reach the DPC? Or add a link to their automated installer? I don\'t speak Dutch, so didn\'t get far in following the team links.

Better yet, could one (or more!) of those in-the-know about that automated installer come join the Yahoo! volunteers group?


I\'m here ;)
The automaticaly installer is currently in development, so...
I\'m leaving for a week, but when I return, I\'ll see what I can do
(if someone else already didn\'t. My teammembers are aware of it, so...)

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Johnathon

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Message 12608 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 7:59:21 UTC

Thanks for your help!

The trouble with those image-based verification systems, is that they involve a lot of quite high-level coding, and at the moment, I couldn\'t make them. I have made the as ott with seperate verification processes (I wont discuss what exactly - kinda destroys the point of putting them in!). If you trigger any of the validation, I will also (or the webmaster will) get an email telling them (me) that the validation has been triggered.

To the baker group - Its been suggested that we use the user details already stored in the database. What do you think about this? If we did, I\'d need to know the framework that your database runs off, and how it remembers logins... I wouldnt need access to your databases as such - thats somthing that you could add later, in the config section of the script.
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Message 12621 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 16:10:45 UTC - in response to Message 12608.  

Thanks for your help!

The trouble with those image-based verification systems, is that they involve a lot of quite high-level coding, and at the moment, I couldn\'t make them. I have made the as ott with seperate verification processes (I wont discuss what exactly - kinda destroys the point of putting them in!). If you trigger any of the validation, I will also (or the webmaster will) get an email telling them (me) that the validation has been triggered.

To the baker group - Its been suggested that we use the user details already stored in the database. What do you think about this? If we did, I\'d need to know the framework that your database runs off, and how it remembers logins... I wouldnt need access to your databases as such - thats somthing that you could add later, in the config section of the script.



what would these details be used for? if users are fine with it, it is of course fine to me; I\'ll talk to David Kim. thanks, David
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R/B

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Message 12625 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 16:45:38 UTC

Dr. Baker,

I\'ve seen Seth Shostak on pbs last night. I also was flipping channels 3 or 4 nights ago or so where Shostak was on interview with the local \'religious channel\'. Seti was only mentioned briefly and in the credits . None of these mentioned setiathome in any fashion whatsoever. If Rosetta can do better.................?

I just want to reiterate how much impact an interview by you would have on the host base.

Do the coast to coast show. Do the Canadian show (quarks and quirks, I believe) , NPR...and any other such thing.

Please update us if you have or have not heard anything from these programs.

Even mention yourself to the BBC. Even a mention of \'another project\' on their next broadcast about climatepredictor would be a plus...
Founder of BOINC GROUP - Objectivists - Philosophically minded rational data crunchers.


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Johnathon

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Message 12628 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 16:58:16 UTC
Last modified: 24 Mar 2006, 16:59:26 UTC

Mr Baker - It would get used to automatically fill in \"your name\" and \"your email\". We wouldnt actually store that information. At the moment, I\'m thinking about making ALL emails sent by the script blind carbon copied to an email account (project one? not mine!) that way if the script gets abused, there would be a record.
To see an early version (and try it out) of the script, go here:
http://www.blue-world.co.uk/personal/email_friend/email_friend.php.
At the moment, that version has a couple of bugs (it triggers the webmaster warning when it should\'nt), and hasnt got a couple of features that I\'m working on.

Edit: Due to security considerations, I will not let the script send more than one e-mail to a friend at one time.
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Message 12629 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 16:59:11 UTC

Yes, let Rosetta tap into the BBC climate project through some means....

Those people are hungry..
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Profile Dimitris Hatzopoulos

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Message 12639 - Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 19:46:23 UTC - in response to Message 12628.  

To see an early version (and try it out) of the script, go here:
http://www.blue-world.co.uk/personal/email_friend/email_friend.php.
At the moment, that version has a couple of bugs (it triggers the webmaster warning when it should\'nt), and hasnt got a couple of features that I\'m working on.

Edit: Due to security considerations, I will not let the script send more than one e-mail to a friend at one time.


Jonathon, would there be a difference between using the script to invite our friends to Rosetta@home one by one and just emailing all e.g. 50 contacts in our address-book from our email app (e.g. Outlook/Thunderbird/mail.app/NetscapeMail)?
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