Posts by mikey

1) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97109)
Posted 2 days ago by mikey
Post:
again, for the people who for some reason do not want to re-install BOINC yet:

the file "ca-bundle.crt" contained in this link https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AAVyh7jontFKASg&id=B0BF9B80B38343C5%21665&cid=B0BF9B80B38343C5 can be used for replacing the existing file in the BOINC folder (usually in C:/Program files/BOINC).
This is a very simple procedure, it's done within half a minute, and the BOINC manager does not even be closed when doing the file replacement.
It worked well on all of my computers.


I wonder why Boinc didn't just include it in the Project files and force the download to every user instead of coming out with a whole new version?
The Developers are smart enough to figure out where on our system the current file is and replace it, sure some systems are soooo locked down it wouldn't work but a clear error message would address that and give enough info to get it fixed.
2) Message boards : Number crunching : Failed to Add Project (Message 97095)
Posted 2 days ago by mikey
Post:
Please I found this thread, have same issues, installed a new CPU for my dedicated BOINC machine along with a new SSD and fresh install and could not add Rosetta


Are you doing it thru Boinc or an add on like BAM? If thru Boinc just click on Rosetta on the list and remove the http: fin the box t the right and it should attach just fine. If BAM then someone who uses that will have to help you.
3) Message boards : Cafe Rosetta : Rosetta is eating up computer memory (Message 96933)
Posted 3 days ago by mikey
Post:
Run one or two less Rosetta tasks to save on the memory, that would equal your reducing the memory setting but yours would also cause very long running workunits.


The number of Tasks being run doesn't affect the Run time, reducing the percentage of CPU time used from 100% does.


That's what I said.
4) Message boards : Cafe Rosetta : Rosetta is eating up computer memory (Message 96850)
Posted 4 days ago by mikey
Post:
Looking at my computer's resource monitor, rosetta is eating up 7 gigabytes out of a total of 16 gigabytes of my system memory. And with all other processes included, I've got 1 gig free out of 16. And the Rosetta project isn't even running (a World Community Grid project is running). That's too much memory and it is definitely messing up my computer's performance. I wish there were a configuration setting for max memory that boinc or a project can use. But I think you need to fix something. I'll have to unplug the Rosetta project if this continues.

Thanks,
JF


Run one or two less Rosetta tasks to save on the memory, that would equal your reducing the memory setting but yours would also cause very long running workunits.
5) Message boards : Number crunching : BitDefender Ransomeware False Positives (Message 96836)
Posted 5 days ago by mikey
Post:
My BitDefender antivirus is picking up false positives on rosetta_4.20_windows_x86_64.exe believing it is trying to encrypt slots5chk_S_00000014_FastRelax__chk##_fa.rng.state.gz files for ransomware purposes and "automatically restoring" them. I've since added an exception to the application myself but figured I ought to bring it up in case it interferes with some returned results or panics some participants.


Just exclude the Boinc folders from your a/v scanning and you will no longer get those, most of those are false positives because of the way Boinc works, ie sending and receiving small bits of data to the same website over and over. Any real virus will try to escape the Boinc folders and will get caught by your a/v.
6) Message boards : Number crunching : Large numbers of tasks aborted by project killing CPU performance (Message 96835)
Posted 5 days ago by mikey
Post:
I have looked over the replies. They are remarkable. Remarkably uninformed. I think it is safe to express my doubts that any of the replies have come from professional programmers, system administrators, or students of computer science. I think you have nice intentions, but... Not sure what perspectives you are coming from, but it seems pretty obvious that I am not talking to you. Therefore if you have nothing to say that is relevant to what I wrote, then perhaps you should say nothing?

There are plenty of misconceptions that I could correct in detail. But I see no reason to do so. Go back and read what I wrote in the original comment. If you can't understand some part of it and if you actually want to understand it, then please try to write an intelligible question.

I'm just going to focus on one aspect from an old class on operating systems principles. It was one of the most influential classes of my entire life. The general principles apply far outside the bounds of computer science. Optimal scheduling is about identifying the critical resources. You always want to swap abundant resources to conserve the scarce ones. You NEVER want to create new bottlenecks where none exist. Time is NOT the critical resource here and the 3-day deadline is actually creating a bottleneck that has no justification. In addition, I have other uses for my time than trying to tweak configurations, especially since I have no access to the performance profiles (which also means my tweaks would be pointless). Nuking excess tasks is much quicker. I'm pretty sure it's causing wasted resources elsewhere, but I can only write reports like the original comment.

It actually reminds me of a system that was so badly tuned and overloaded that the character echo was taking several seconds. It feels like I'm insulting some of you if I explain what that means, but .., When you typed a character the computer was too busy to send the character back to you. The system was finally spending almost all of its computing resources keeping track of which users were supposed to receive which echoed characters and almost no actual work was being accomplished.

I suppose I better apologize for my poor teaching, eh? Though I earned a living that way for some years, I never did learn how to motivate. Most of the time I was teaching required classes, so motivation wasn't my main problem. The good students wanted to learn and mostly I just had to stay out of their way and help when I could. Most of the students just wanted to pass, so I helped them do that. Then there's always a few students who want to fail, but I focused on making it harder to fail than to pass. Didn't lose one in my last course.


STOP being a Teacher, thanks for doing it btw, and start being a cruncher! Stop telling people how things should be and start helping people figure out how to work within the system as it is, weare not Programmers or even System Admin folks, we are crunchers too and that means, like you, have ZERO ability to make the changes you are alluding too. We don't get to decide how this or that works or gets done or ANYTHING like that, we come here to crunch for our own reasons and once those reasons change we move on to someplace else.
7) Message boards : Number crunching : Large numbers of tasks aborted by project killing CPU performance (Message 96834)
Posted 5 days ago by mikey
Post:
It's increasingly hard to believe that this project is accomplishing anything meaningful. The grasp of scheduling seems to be really weak.

What you [the project managers] seem to be doing now is sending large numbers of tasks on short deadlines. Many of these tasks seem to be linked to large blocks of data. Because the tasks can't possibly be completed within your short deadlines, then you wind up aborting large numbers of tasks. However, even the abortions of tasks are done crudely, basically stepping up one day to abort another stack of tasks that cannot be completed within their deadlines.

More haste, less speed? Or worse?

Other times my various machines have more demands on memory than can be accommodated. That results in idle CPUs (actually cores) unless large "waiting for memory" tasks are manually aborted to make space for smaller tasks. Other times tasks that have nearly finished are aborted by the project for unclear reasons. Other tasks that are also past their deadlines are permitted to finish, though of course it is unclear if any of these tasks are earning any credit.

So we [the donors of computing resources] just have to hope that the individual projects themselves are better managed than the project as a whole seems to be? As I've noted before, if I were still involved in research I would be advising the researchers to be quite careful about any results coming from a system run like this one....

Solution time, but I'm sure mine is ugly. At this point I just always manually abort the pending tasks except for those issued today. That gives the running tasks the best chance to finish and be replaced by tasks that also have the best chance to finish without being aborted by the project itself. Tasks that are "waiting for memory" are also aborted, though often I have to go through a bunch of them before a sufficiently small task gets a chance to run on the available core. Main ugliness of this kludge is that I'm sure lots of data is being downloaded and discarded untouched. (However that's happening anyway with the tasks that get aborted by the project.)

REAL solution is realistic deadlines. Sophisticated solution would involve memory management, too, but right now I feel like that is beyond your capabilities.


Nope the REAL solution is a smaller cache of workunits on your machine!! There i no reason to have a 10 day cache of workunits if that are ALL due in 2 to 3 days, NO ONE could finish all those in time!! Now how to get a smaller cache can be done in one of two basic ways...1)you lower the cahce settings on your machine or 2) the Project sends out fewer workunits per request. If you want the 2nd option then people with 128 cpu cores on a single machine are screwed thanks to you!! And YES there are people crunching who have hardware like that!!!
8) Message boards : Number crunching : Rosetta now abandonware? (Message 96498)
Posted 19 days ago by mikey
Post:
    <10k tasks left, previously there was over 2million and was actively being kept above 1 million

They are doing more relvent to todays stuff and that means small groups of tasks based of the cuurent tasks

No news/updates in regards to project progress - Folding@Home gives update almost daily

Read the News thread they are posting on Twitter, it's their project and they can post where they want too

No way to know what you've contributed to (Folding@Home puts their publications front and center. GPUGRID gives you badges according to each publication you contributed to).

Again read the News thread

Continuing the above point: Rosetta does nothing to make you feel involved. e.g. Folding@Home now has a community Discord to keep contributors engaged to try and reduce the decline in users over time.

Again read the News thread

Still no AVX support - Folding@Home has this
Still no GPU support - Folding@Home has thisV

That requires programers that are expesniive and money is tight at every Boinc Project these days, even Seti shut down for lack of funding, have YOU donated to any Projects still around?

Memory errors posted on forums is going unaddressed (See signal 11 for Linux/Max and ACCESS_VIOLATION for Windows.)
In some cases, BSOD's are occurring when running these tasks at the same time as other heavy applications.

According to this site it's a problem on your end "it's a memory access error, which is usually caused by bad hardware. ram, motherboard, cpu overheating, whatever."

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/what-is-a-signal-11-error-and-how-do-i-fix-this-109734/

Direct PMs unanswered, direct emails ignored, forum posts not replied to.


The lack of communication, especially in regards to the memory errors, is what annoys me the most. Work feels wasted.


If they took the time to chat with each and every person who PM'd an Admin someone would never get any work done. ALL Projects suggest you try asking your questions in the Forums and the Admins will read them as they have time and respond when others aren't giving the correct response.
9) Message boards : Number crunching : How secure is my machine when running R@h? (Message 96486)
Posted 20 days ago by mikey
Post:
Thanks to all that responded!

Is anyone aware of companies that install BOINC to run R@H out of office hours in their main office desktops or data-centers spare capacity? or, as the name would say, this is only meant for home usage?

Best Regards,
Guilherme


My former employer who had over 10k pc's was working on using a sandboxing method of running Boinc but the local power company offered to pay them to shut down the machines at night instead of expanding their power generation efforts so it never happened. The basic ideas was that at 8pm, after 99% of employees were gone, the pc would pop up a message saying 'if you don't want the machine to reboot click the mouse or keyboard within 60 seconds', if no one clicked anything then the machine would auto reboot into a sandboxed setup for Boinc, it would be get a unit, finish it and get another unit, no cache at all. Then at around 4 am it would stop getting new tasks and once it recognized it was no longer crunching it would reboot back to the normal everyday screen for the users to do their daily work.
10) Message boards : Number crunching : Time to drop 32 bit OS? (Message 96484)
Posted 20 days ago by mikey
Post:
A lot of linux distro has drop 32 bit support.
MS, with the incoming new Win10 version will drop 32 bit support for OEM
These are the stats of 32 and 64 bit in Rosetta:
32 bit (Win+Lin)= 2,343 Gflops
64 bit (Win+Lin)= 529,782 Gflops

It's time to have only 64 bit app for R@H??


So you think it's a good thing to just drop all the 32 bit machines from Rosetta in the middle of a pandemic that Rosetta itself is helping is helping to find a cure/vaccine for?
I think as a long term goal that's not a bad idea but not for the foreseeable future. I think it should also depend on the number of 32 bit machines connected and contributing valid Science, if there are only 3 of them then yes stop supporting them but if there are 30,000 of them that's alot of computing power to no longer support and send elsewhere.
Yes the Boinc client software itself has stopped making new versions of 32 bit software but they said they intend to still support the 32 bit community for as long as the Projects do with the older 32 bit versions.
11) Message boards : Number crunching : Longer Runtime VS More Tasks (Message 96361)
Posted 23 days ago by mikey
Post:
What are your thoughts on selecting a longer target runtime and crunching more "decoys" per tasks versus selecting a shorter runtime and thus generate fewer decoys per task, but going through more tasks?

I believe that the efficiency should be similar, both results-wise and credit-wise (now that the validator has been fixed), are there any reasons to go one way or the other?


I like BOTH actually, some people have brand new really fast cpu's and can easily accomodate anything you can throw at them, while other people have older hardware that would struggle with too large a workunit or one that takes too long to crunch. Also not every crunches 24/7 so longer units could end up repeating sections if the checkpoints aren't setup often enough, further reducing peoples willingness to crunch here. So I would setup two kinds of workunits, let's call them short and long for brevity, and let users choose which they want to run. As long as the credits work out similar enough for each type both should be crunched. IF you want the long ones to be crunched more you could even setup a 'bonus' amount of credits for returning a long unit within 12 hours for example. The Project GPUGrid did that and people seem to like it, they reduced their cache sizes and units are crunched very quickly and the data is used to setup the next batch of workunits, the bonus credits gives them a pretty quick turn around time.
12) Message boards : Number crunching : Downloaded way too many tasks at once? (Message 96360)
Posted 23 days ago by mikey
Post:
I haven’t managed to get a 7.16.6 for Linux yet.


Try here: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/dl/?C=M;O=D
13) Message boards : Number crunching : 2nd shortage looming? (Message 96307)
Posted 25 days ago by mikey
Post:
hi, if the researchers need to evaluate the current results before the next batch, please make announcements on the main web page as well as in boinc-gui so that people would hang on in the project. if there is going to be a pause in between, do state so and give estimate of the pause duration if possible.

a pause is not a bad thing, people may perform maintenance in between, upgrades, restart servers etc.


Set up a couple of zero resource share backup projects and the only thing your pc will know is it's crunching for a different project today than it was yesterday. Then when Rosetta has tasks again it will come back to Rosetta with no hiccups.
14) Message boards : Number crunching : How secure is my machine when running R@h? (Message 96306)
Posted 25 days ago by mikey
Post:
It is also important to remember that Boinc only accesses one set of Directories on your pc, nothing else, and every Project is as concerned about viruses as you and your customers are so actively check everything all the time. There are instances that a pc may flag something as 'virus like' but that's because of the way Boinc works not that it's an actual virus. The way around those false positives is to exclude the Boinc directories from your a/v scanner, any REAL virus will try and get to other directories on the pc and get caught by your a/v while any false positives within the Boinc directories will be ignored. Boinc sends info back and forth to the same Project IP address all the time, the Heuristic way of scanning can sometimes see that as 'virus like' as someplace collecting your data and flag it.
15) Message boards : Number crunching : running out of tasks soon (Message 96303)
Posted 25 days ago by mikey
Post:
i'm not really a fan of GPUs, they are power hungry, certainly
Yet since they can do more work than a CPU using similar amounts of power, they are much, much more efficient than CPUs for such work.
Efficiency isn't about instantaneous or maximum power consumption. It's about the energy used to to perform a given task over time.


But only certain kinds of tasks and in the past Rosetta has said they don't fit the way their workunits do things, they said they would look into it going forward but gave no promises.
16) Message boards : Number crunching : 2nd shortage looming? (Message 96282)
Posted 25 days ago by mikey
Post:
The queue was brought up to over 9 million on April 28th - https://web.archive.org/web/20200428015118/http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

fell to 5.7 million WUs less than a week later https://web.archive.org/web/20200502165444/https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

and has depleted to 1.5 million as of the latest update at 19:xx UTC today. So, while much of this can be marked up to the BOINC Pentathlon's tendency to Bunker WUs - the end result will still be a potential shortage of WUs.

So because of these stats - it's fair to wonder if we'll be running into another shortage.

Note: Just wanted to start this discussion, not to yell at the scientists or mods to make more WUs. Please refrain from doing so in this thread, or in general. We're not entitled to WUs - I just wanted to start the conversation... a healthy conversation.


My understanding is the current tasks help determine the path the next round of tasks follow so yes they dwindle down and then pop back up again.
17) Message boards : Number crunching : running out of tasks soon (Message 96182)
Posted 27 days ago by mikey
Post:
the rosetta@home network supercomputing power is nearly 1.9 petaflops, completing nearly a million wu a day ;)
the number of tasks has come down from some 10 million tasks to 3.5 million
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
r@h would queue more of the larger molecules to explore the space more completely?
the large molecules sometimes returns only a single model in 3-4 hours on a pi4


New tasks are made based on the results of the current tasks so that isn't always possible.
18) Message boards : Cafe Rosetta : AVAST IS MALICIOUS OR QUITE POSSIBLY MALWARE (Message 96142)
Posted 28 days ago by mikey
Post:
Luckily these days installing a third party antivirus is not needed, the one Windows already has is effective enough, if you regularly update Windows.


Yes,its a solution.
Even the windows 7 security/antivirus package was probably efficient and enough.

But, since the support for w7 stopped at some point of this year even tough avast announced that the support for this os w7 will last I installed avast.
Then this happened.
"Antivirus software searching for a cure" etc.

And also, comparing to the behavior of other software on which you can have some sort of administrative control "avast free" is possibly dangerous and a backdoor opener.
Still, not a reccomendation for use. The way to get rid of it, completely uninstall is using youruninstaller pro , deleting registry keys, restarting and then if the directory stays in installation folder (program files) delete for eg. with different bootable OS.


Free AVG works for me but has ALOT of nagware and requires a reboot about once a month but it does work for my Boinc only machines still running Win7.
Even the free version of Malwarebytes has nagware now!!
BUT I have 15 pc's here and I am not paying for that stuff on a machine that only crunches!!
I do use the free Win10 stuff on my Win10 machines except for my laptop I use all the time, my desktop I use when I'm not using the laptop and my backup machine that all the other pc's do a monthly backup to.
19) Message boards : News : Switch to using SSL (Secure Socket Layer) (Message 95822)
Posted 2 May 2020 by mikey
Post:
Hi,

I have 2 clients, one on Linux (ubuntu) and Mac. I noticed that I only received notifications on my Mac's boinc manager, but not Linux.

Anyway, the tasks were finishing on Linu so I removed the project and tried to reattach Rosetta.
It just keeps saying:

"Failed to add. Please try again later"

Here's how I add it:
Add Project -> Scroll to Rosetta-> paste this url "https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/" --> click next.

--jonoave--


Give it time as you can see by the messages here everyone and his brother is changing right now and the server is probably swamped.
Crunch another Project for a few tasks and then come back to Rosetta later on and try again. PrimeGrid for instance has some very short LLR tasks.
20) Message boards : Cafe Rosetta : Getting started on a Raspberry Pi 3 , Pi 4 Rosetta@Home tutorials / guides (Message 95453)
Posted 27 Apr 2020 by mikey
Post:
Any luck? I tried with a Pi3B and I think it said no available projects for your architecture. I didn't try beyond Rosetta@Home though.


If you look at each Boinc Project when you try to add it it it gives you a list of icons that kinda sorta give you an idea of the apps it has. To be sure though it's best to check each project individually as some may support something but still not have any tasks for it. I do know Einstein does have Pi tasks.


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