Posts by Corhal

1) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64333)
Posted 2 Dec 2009 by Corhal
Post:
So this is a case where the raw computing speed of the CPU is stellar (hence the high credit claim), but the actual results produced when running Rosetta are less then stellar, because (apparently) the contention for L2-cache is preventing full use of the CPUs. The CPUs find themselves waiting for things to arrive in L2 before they can proceed with execution.

The BOINC benchmarks (which is what the claim is based on) are not memory intensive at all, and so they do not factor in this vital resource on the benchmarks used.

This sort of dichotomy between a measurement and a reality is exactly why so many DIFFERENT benchmarks exist for measuring system capabilities.

I also just wanted to point out that it is extremely difficult to draw concrete inference about one machine by comparing to another. This is because there are always so many different types of work in progress on Rosetta@home. And so even if you found WUs from the same protein, doing the same type of search protocol, you will still find variation from one model to the next. Since the tasks are always unique sets of models, the work the two machines were performing is never truly perfectly identical. One model may have 10% (or more, 100% in some isolated cases) variation in runtime to other models of the same task.


Hmm, that's rather interesting. It's a shame the CPU usage is 100% and yet they can't crunch to their full ability. Makes me wish I had bought Intel 2xQuad Cores with the 1024KB cache! Never thought I'd need it that much.

The Work Units (per processor) take about the same time as on an my 1024KB Intel Dual Core and yet only yield 5-15C (per WU) compared to the 35-50C the Intel gets. I always assumed a completed Work Unit is the same no matter what PC its done on. This implies then that a WU completed on the machine with the bigger cache gets the Work Unit better done / more / better results or something like that? (Hence the more credits per WU)

And I realize that it's difficult to compare two PCs when crunching due to the many, many factors playing a role. But there's still something you can tell from the comparison if there's a range of 5-15C and a range of 35-50C per Work Unit over a longer period of time :)


Is there any chance that Rosetta might work better on machines with a smaller cache size some time in the future? Or is that simply not possible with the kind of work Rosetta is doing?
2) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64320)
Posted 1 Dec 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Thanks transient, that clears it up for me. :) The AMD only has a cache of 512 KB while the Intel has 1024 KB!
3) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64312)
Posted 30 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:

Hi Corhal

We can't see your computer names - you have to be logged in as you for that ;)

I would expect your Opteron to be producing higher granted credits than it is though. I would expect the memory speed to make bigger than average difference on that system, but I'd still expect it to get more credits per core, per hour...


Hey dcdc

yes, I'm very confused about that as well. It's doing the tasks pretty quickly and 8 at a time (as I set it to use 100%) - it's just getting such a low amount of Granted Credits per task! 9-15c for the same task that the Intel gets 40-50c for. As I understood the Granted Credit is a formula that is mostly based on the average of Claimed Credits from all the other machines that processed this type of task before. So why would it make a difference which kind of PC is processing it? Could it be an error in the credit system? It'd explain why so many AMD users are talking about their PCs earning a lot less credits in Rosetta@home than in other BOINC projects!

Mod.Sense: Thanks a lot! I must've overlooked that option. Much better for me to read it in english than german :)
4) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64293)
Posted 30 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Thanks for all the answers! :)

It's pretty odd, my AMD seems to be getting a much lower Granted Credit for the same kind of tasks than the Intel running linux. I get about 9-15 Granted Credits for the current lr5_combined_smooth_torsion on the AMD, but about 40-50 on the Intel. The Claimed Credits are about the same! I understand how the credit system works, I'm just wondering why the granted credits are so much lower! I don't understand that at all. (Calliope and rainerf-pc for anyone checking my profile)


Another thing, doesn't really have to do with number crunching though, is that the webpage is in german for me and I don't see any way to set it to english. I'm from germany, so he probably got it from my header/IP or something, I would much prefer it to be in english though. Am I just missing the button to switch or isn't there one? :)
5) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64268)
Posted 28 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Oh, and another thing I was wondering about. Does BOINC and Rosetta update itself or is there an option for it to do so? It wouldn't be a problem to update it on my home machines, but I wouldn't have the time at work to update the clients every few months, it's hard enough to find the time to install BOINC on them as it is :)

edit: Ah, it seems Rosetta gets its application updates the same way it gets the WUs - does BOINC auto update as well?
6) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64267)
Posted 28 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Thanks for the link! Good to know how the RAC is calculated exactly :)

I've also been reading more threads on the forums and it seems that Intel CPUs have the advantage on AMD CPUs in Rosetta@home, and I've been mostly comparing with those. And I realize it's not entirely possible to compare anyway, due to the reasons you stated.


Rosetta is definitely the most interesting distributed computing project I've taken part in so far :) I like the way David Baker keeps us informed through his journal and all that extra information on the site you can read up on. I didn't see much information on the folding@home site, beside the publications at least. I hope volunteers keep joining and the average TFLOPS keep going up!
7) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64264)
Posted 28 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Oh, I see! I thought RAC was just the credits that I've gotten in the past few days :) There was a link that was supposed to explain how the RAC is calculated, but it didn't load for me.

Thanks for the clarification, glad it's not actually processing fewer WUs than it's supposed to :)
8) Message boards : Number crunching : Low Credits RAC for 8-Core PC? (Message 64258)
Posted 28 Nov 2009 by Corhal
Post:
Hey,

I've recently started running Rosetta@Home on my home computers (and started installing them on the ~50 low-end PCs I administrate at work)

I was just wondering if there's something I'm missing with the settings. While the CPU usage is 100% my home PC only averages to about 220 RAC - and it's a 2x Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 2356 that runs about 10-12 hours a day. I've looked through the stats and I've seen Core Duos doing at least double that! I don't care much about the credits, but it would be a shame if I could be processing more WUs if I tweaked some settings?

RAM usage is about 8x300mb, which isn't a problem with the 8GB I have installed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Corhal / Julian


PS: I'm sorry if this issue has been addressed in another thread, I've been reading through the FAQs and looking through the forums, but I couldn't find a similiar thread to it.






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