Posts by EHM-1

1) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97879)
Posted 2 Jul 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Thanks, Grant. I've always just used the local preferences in BOINC. I now see what I presume is the default setting of 100 in my Rosetta prefs. But no corresponding setting in WCG (my one other project). No matter as I'm planning to continue sitting back per your suggestion and watch how BOINC balances the two projects. It piques my curiosity when, as it has a couple times over the past couple days, BOINC pauses a nearly complete Rosetta unit due in less than 2 days to download and start processing a shorter-duration OpenPandemic unit that is due in five days. All shall be revealed in the fullness of time.
Eric
WCG places that setting under Device Profiles. Once you select which profile to edit, you may need to select Custom Profile, then scroll down to the bottom of the page to see where you can set it, labelled Project weight.

Thanks, Robert. I feel a bit silly having missed Device Manager. Now I see under the custom option that it's set to 60% max. Tempted to adjust that now, but restraining myself for the time being.
Eric
2) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97877)
Posted 2 Jul 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
What's easiest is to set Rosetta at say 50%, WCG at 25% and some orther project at 25% and let Boinc figure it out,which it will do over time. Just be sure to keep your cache sizes small so you don't run into deadline problems. With Rosetta's 3 day deadline if you have 3 days of work NO other projects will crunch because their deadline will be further out than 3 days.
Where are these resource share settings hidden?
In your account, Rosetta@ home preferences, Resource share.
The number there isn't a percentage. It makes up the ratio for the work to be done with the values from you other projects.
And changing that, will delay even further your Resource share settings being met.

Thanks, Grant. I've always just used the local preferences in BOINC. I now see what I presume is the default setting of 100 in my Rosetta prefs. But no corresponding setting in WCG (my one other project). No matter as I'm planning to continue sitting back per your suggestion and watch how BOINC balances the two projects. It piques my curiosity when, as it has a couple times over the past couple days, BOINC pauses a nearly complete Rosetta unit due in less than 2 days to download and start processing a shorter-duration OpenPandemic unit that is due in five days. All shall be revealed in the fullness of time.
Eric
3) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97867)
Posted 2 Jul 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
What's easiest is to set Rosetta at say 50%, WCG at 25% and some orther project at 25% andlet Boinc figure it out,which it will do over time.Just besure to keep your cache sizes small so you don't run into deadline problems. With Rosetta's 3 day deadline if you have 3 days of work NO other projects will crunch because their deadline will be further out than 3 days.

Where are these resource share settings hidden?
Eric
4) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97831)
Posted 30 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Follow-up to my previous post, just out of curiosity: Why would BOINC interrupt a work unit in progress to start another? I promise I'll hold off on questions now...
Eric

5) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97828)
Posted 29 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Thanks for that input, guys! I thought it might be a case of settling in to a routine. I've tweaked the settings according to Grant's suggestions, and will now sit back for a stretch and see how things shake out.
Eric
6) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97824)
Posted 29 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Well, the adventure continues, with a new question about BOINC's work unit triage decisions. In the below task listing, can anyone explain this scenario, referring to the screenshot below?
Note: With my current settings, BOINC processes three work units at a time.

  1. I'm watching the three WCG work units (yellow box) just before the top one reaches 100%.
  2. Since the Rosetta one (red arrows) has been waiting its turn, and has the earliest deadline in the list, I expect BOINC will start on it next.
  3. But it starts processing the next WCG unit instead (green arrows).


Why the WCG and not the Rosetta? I can only guess it has to do with the "switch between tasks" setting, which I currently have set to a little longer than a Rosetta work unit requires.
Since Rosetta units require a longer processing time and carry tighter deadlines than the WCG OpenPandemics, I would think it best for BOINC to be toiling on two Rosettas and one WCG at a time, thereby completing 2 of the former and 5 of the latter every 8 hours. But I don't see how to tweak BOINC to achieve that if it is in fact a valid pursuit. Any ideas? Am I delving too deep, awakening a Balrog?
Eric

7) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97809)
Posted 29 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
When I first saw your msg for some reason none of the other very good replies and suggestions were showing, nor were your useful images, so I've only just caught up.
If I can make some further suggestions...

@Sid: Very good of you to go through all that so thoroughly for me! I've implemented most of your suggestions. And thanks for the tip about where application priority is assigned in Windows -- never been in that corner of Task Manager before.
I do now suspect that it was expired work units that may have hung up Rosetta. Since it fetched new ones and resumed processing yesterday, I'm now waiting to see when BOINC will fetch new work units for WCG, which it has yet to do since it finished the batch it processed yesterday. Today I've been messing with various commands to probe how that all works. Funny to think that after almost 20 years of running BOINC, I've learned more about it in the last two days than in the entire preceding time. Thanks again!
Eric
8) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97794)
Posted 28 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:

Log into Boincstats, then go to BAM, then signature on the left column. Check setting in there like "Do not show projects with a BS-RAC lower than"

Also, can you see WCG in your stats on the main Boincstats page similar to my https://www.boincstats.com/stats/-1/user/detail/6470/projectList but change to your user number? If not, you may need to authorise exporting data in the WCG settings (daft EU legislation).

@Peter: Thanks for answering. Per your suggestion to log in to BAM, I just created a Boincstats account, and no projects are listed. I assume that's because the CPID field in my profile there is empty. I tried renewing it, but that did not populate it.

But I remembered having seen a project listing for myself there yesterday (first time ever on that site)(maybe in conjunction with looking for signature stats code to use here?), and by looking in my history I found the project listing I'd seen yesterday, which is under my SETI username (created in '99) of EHM-1. If I click on the "detailed stats" link there, it takes me to a stats page that looks like yours, lists SETI and Rosetta, but not WCG. It of course shows a different user id from the one in the account I just created.
I'm wondering if a sort of dummy account was generated in Boincstats by my having added their signature box url to my profile here. I can no longer say how I came up with that url with the EHM-1 user id (https://boincstats.com/signature/-1/user/40364120/sig.png).

So now of course I'm completely lost. I can't say how Boincstats knows about EHM-1, nor why it would have a user id without me having created an account, but I assume I should dump the new account and try to create a log-in based on the EHM-1 user id. I will try that now. Sorry to be so clueless, and feel free to abandon any attempt to rescue me!
Eric
PS, follow-up: I deleted my BAM account, and can't see any way to create one based on an existing user id.
9) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97784)
Posted 28 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:

In short, no. Sounds very odd.
I run an i3-8350 remotely so I'm familiar with your PC, though mine has 16Gb RAM compared to your 8Gb, but that ought not to make any difference with just 4-cores.

The only thing I can ask is, on the Computing tab under Computing preferences in Boinc Manager, do you have anything in the section titled "When to suspend" ?
Everything in that section should be unselected.
In the section above, titled 'Usage Limits', both should be 100%

@SId: Yes, I do have some suspension criteria selected, for reasons I mentioned below (running ArcGIS, for one). Yesterday's comp prefs are below in message 97710. The prefs I've been trying since last night are below in this message.

@Brian re screensaver: Yes, since the setting changes I made yesterday, BOINC is now processing work units when I'm using the computer. Until then, I'd always had it set to process only after I'd been idle for a certain time. For many years I've had Windows set to invoke the screensaver after x minutes idle, and BOINC to start processing after x+1 minutes idle. The screensaver kicking in is a fun gimmick that always catches kids' (and the rare curious adults') attention, and helps perpetuate my legend among my friends' kids that I'm some kind of eccentric mad genius communicating with aliens via my computer.

Thanks to you guys' help, I predict my Rosetta ranking will now soar into the low 300,000s. Now off to pick out a limo...
Eric
PS- Anyone have an idea why my signature stats don't show WCG? Is there maybe a lag between adding the project and the stat-box-generator capturing a new user? I added WCG yesterday or the day before from within BOINC mgr, and started using the signature yesterday.

10) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97747)
Posted 28 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Well, you are all very helpful! I'm happy to say that some tweaks I tried an hour ago, before I read the past several posts, are somewhat in line with your suggestions. So I'm tentatively upgrading my self-assessment from dolt to simpleton. @Brian, your first sentence there, so simply put, immensely increased my understanding of how these work units are handled. I think that concept should be presented to every BOINC user on day one. Years ago, at the inception of BOINC, if I'd be told half of what you all have imparted to me today, I would have been a much better contributor all these years. Until now, seeking guidance in the forums has been frustrating and mostly unfruitful. Thankee!

PS- As I've been writing, BOINC is processing three work units simultaneously, which I assume means it's using three cores per my new CPU setting. I still have the switch-between interval set at 1,000 minutes, so I hope that does not cause my OpenPandemic tasks to expire. We'll see.
11) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97724)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Any particular reason you stop Boinc so much? I leave mine on all the time, with very few programs that it slows down, so I set those as exclusive applications to pause Boinc when they run. 3 games, and VLC media player. Some stop the GPU, some stop the CPU also.

Or if you're always running something that needs some CPU for your work, tell Boinc to use less than all the cores, leaving some for you.

I guess when I set it up years ago, I just didn't want it to keep the computer running all day. But maybe I'll try giving it more time and resources.
Eric
12) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97720)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Thanks, @Robert and @Grant. I've never received such prompt and good input in a forum before.
Grant, I suspect the only program I use that might tax the processor at times would be ArcGIS, which might have moments when it could be considered heavily multi-threaded. I'm out of my depth trying to determine whether I'll regret giving BOINC more resource access.
Robert, I think I'll try your 51/100 settings tip. I wonder if I should alter the memory settings?
Eric
13) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97710)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
@EricM:

It seems that BOINC is having trouble deciding how much work to download for your computer. As I understand it, that decision is based in part on what BOINC has seen the computer complete in the past. Does the machine have an irregular usage pattern? (Powered off frequently/​irregularly? Variable amount of other work being done while BOINC is running?) The missed deadlines and high average turnaround time (2.81 days: only just within the 3-⁠day deadline) may be contributing.

Check all your Computing preferences. Post values/​screenshots here, and we might spot something amiss. Regarding pauses: do you have any restrictions in your Daily schedules settings?

To try to get some tasks, try increasing Store at least N days of work. Do it in steps: add around 0.4 (slightly more than one 8-⁠hour task time), save, wait a couple of minutes for BOINC to contact the server, and see if it downloads some tasks. If not, repeat. As soon as you get some tasks, reduce N again to maybe 0.3 (slightly less than one task) to avoid your machine getting flooded with work it cannot complete until BOINC learns better how long each task will take. Set Store up to an additional to 0, as at this stage the last thing you need is BOINC using poor estimates to opportunistically download even more work.

Thanks to the three of you for your input!

@Peter, your 17-hour comment addresses a question I almost posed. It would be good of the Lords of BOINC to make clear in the settings if the application switching interval setting refers to elapsed time or task run-time.

@Brian, I was planning to implement your suggestions, but first waited to see how BOINC would react to my having suspended World Community Grid / OpenPandemics (my only other active project). As I suspected might occur, Rosetta started processing again at screensaver invocation, and I noted that BOINC had fetched four new Rosetta units. Of course I don't know if that was prompted by the suspension and/or the result of my having changed the application switching interval, or mere coincidence.
Given this, would you say I should still change my work storage settings?

To answer your questions:

  • My computer usage would be irregular seen over a couple decades, but is more regular the past few years. Typically, the computer is on 15 hours a day. Sometimes I'm working with it for much of the day, during which BOINC does not run. Other times, the sceensaver might come on 5-10 times per day and run for an hour each time. I have the screensaver set to come on after ten minutes, then I think the comp sleeps after an hour. But, depending on how far back we go -- I ran SETI@home for 20 years -- there are times when the computer is off for a few days or a few weeks, and there was a ten-year era when it would often be running only on weekends.
  • See my computing preferences screenshot below.


@Robert, I think your comment regarding deadlines and the server determining reliability of my computer could explain at least part of the reason for Rosetta being stalled the past few days. I was away Sun-Tue, so maybe the server gave up on the partially completed work units on my machine? If the cause is something like that, it makes me think that Rosetta is less tolerant that SETI was in this regard.
Eric

14) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97701)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:

I turned that nonsense off. Go into Boinc's properties and change the "switch between applications" to a huge number. I set mine to a year. I do not want stuff changing before it's finished.

Thanks for the tip, Peter. I switched it from 120 minutes to 1,000 for now to see what happens, double what I've observed as the process time for a Rosetta task. And now I'm suspending my second project temporarily to see if Rosetta resumes the task when the screensaver kicks in.
Eric
15) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97696)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Thanks for letting me know about the screenshot problem, Brian. I wish I could edit my post. Posting below via imgur.
There are no Rosetta tasks in my task listing.

16) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97686)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
EricM,

Looks like you need to give more details about not finishing the current task. If it includes leaving a CPU core idle, that's a problem. If it's switching to running another task instead, that's normal.

Below is a shot of the project properties in BOINC. I don't know of any way to see the status of the current work unit other than to let the screensaver start running and read it from the BOINC status messages that run before the project screensaver does. From the event log, here are the most recent Rosetta-related messages that contain anything other than "no tasks sent/project requested delay":

6/24/2020 7:16:42 PM | Rosetta@home | Result hbnet_surface_design3_0.7_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_3yb2cw0d_949347_1_0 is no longer usable
6/24/2020 7:16:42 PM | Rosetta@home | Result miniprotein_relax2_COVID_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_9db4ko0a_949448_2_0 is no longer usable
6/24/2020 7:16:42 PM | Rosetta@home | No tasks sent
6/24/2020 7:16:42 PM | Rosetta@home | Project requested delay of 31 seconds

and the most recent Rosetta-related messages prior to the above:

6/23/2020 3:51:03 PM | Rosetta@home | Task hbnet_surface_design3_0.7_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_3yb2cw0d_949347_1_0 is 1.74 days overdue; you may not get credit for it.  Consider aborting it.
6/23/2020 3:51:03 PM | Rosetta@home | Task miniprotein_relax2_COVID_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_9db4ko0a_949448_2_0 is 0.70 days overdue; you may not get credit for it.  Consider aborting it.
6/23/2020 3:51:03 PM | Rosetta@home | URL https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/; Computer ID 3864355; resource share 100
6/23/2020 3:51:03 PM | SETI@home | URL http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/; Computer ID 8050566; resource share 100



17) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97684)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
EricM,
Rosetta@home currently has so many new users that it's not keeping up with the demand for tasks.
As for being paused mid-task while another BOINC project run, that's normal if you have more than one BOINC project providing tasks. Tasks close to their deadlines get higher priority to run, and tasks for the other project catch up on run time later.

Hi Robert, and thanks for the info. I added the second project at your suggestion, thanks for that as well.
But the Rosetta pause occurred before that, and has several other times in the past couple months. So I still wonder why it's not finishing the current task.
Eric
18) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 97676)
Posted 27 Jun 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Hello Sid and all-
Not sure if this is related to what Steven is encountering:
On my computer Rosetta will run for days as expected, then do nothing for a day or two, then resume normal behavior. I've never seen any explanation for this. I'm currently in one of these down times. Yesterday I added a second project to my BOINC acct, and it is running as expected. As far as I know, Rosetta is still paused in mid-task. Anyone have an idea what might be causing this?
Eric
19) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 94155)
Posted 11 Apr 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
FYI to anyone who may be paying attention: Rosetta resumed apparently normal behavior on my desktop this morning, after around 2 days of appearing stalled. I have no idea what is causing this behavior. Any ideas? Original post https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=6893&postid=92534#92534.



Eric
20) Message boards : Number crunching : Problems and Technical Issues with Rosetta@home (Message 94072)
Posted 10 Apr 2020 by EHM-1
Post:
Anyone else seeing this behavior? (follow link above to message 92354)
After resuming apparently normal function for 8-10 days, the screensaver is displaying this blank template the past day and a half.
Eric


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