that was lame mod.
you still have not explained yourself to any level of certainty other than your ability to dodge questions and lock threads.

so I am taking it to a higher level via email.
in the meantime lets not post any addresses here.

And since it is just the 3 of us chatting here, if we have anything juicy then we can just email each other or send messages.

If this thread goes dead so be it. I am sick of the censorship.

here is an observation, and nothing more than an observation:

i don't see any forum guidelines that would prohibit forum posters from using pgp to post encrypted messages, to which only other forum posters would have the decryption keys.

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin

which in turn would make this moderator suspect the link and remove it like in the previous thread. all links that fall in the category of the previous thread posts should be sent by internal message or email.

until the issue addressed in the locked thread is addressed we should give mod less work to do and move our chats to email or message.
then we have true freedom of speech without censorship.

We should... move our chats to email or message

What a wonderful idea!

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Sense

Wow, did you ever get the impression that an agent of Rosie is trying to discourage multi-year volunteer donors?

Fortunately, I intend to be around for a LONG time, pursue all the appeals that a volunteer donor is entitled to, and keep on posting !!!

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He is an agent?
He stated he is a volunteer. volunteers are not agents of the project or the school.

Wow, did you ever get the impression that an agent of Rosie is trying to discourage multi-year volunteer donors?

Fortunately, I intend to be around for a LONG time, pursue all the appeals that a volunteer donor is entitled to, and keep on posting !!!

YES, they are !!!

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YES, they are !!!

explain

someone from rosie gave the mods the appropriate accounts and passwords to perform certain tasks on behalf of the state of Washington...

volunteer or paid is irrelevant. they are acting on behalf of the state of Washington.

YES, they are !!!

explain

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin

Here's a portion of a nursery rhyme:

All around the mulberry bush
The monkey chased the weasel.
The monkey thought 'twas all in fun.
Pop! goes the weasel.

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin

hmm...yeah in that sense then yeah that person is an agent that needs to follow the schools rules on the matters in the closed thread.

someone from rosie gave the mods the appropriate accounts and passwords to perform certain tasks on behalf of the state of Washington...

volunteer or paid is irrelevant. they are acting on behalf of the state of Washington.

YES, they are !!!

explain

hmm...yeah in that sense then yeah that person is an agent that needs to follow the schools rules on the matters in the closed thread.

someone from rosie gave the mods the appropriate accounts and passwords to perform certain tasks on behalf of the state of Washington...

volunteer or paid is irrelevant. they are acting on behalf of the state of Washington.

YES, they are !!!

explain

It is kind of like the volunteer at the local School, they are STILL required to abide by ALL school rules and enforce them appropriately. They are ALSO required to NOT make up new rules they think SHOULD be in force but are not! Having been a Mod at Seti I know it is a thankless job but also one with not a whole lot of guidance from above. It is kind of do it and we will worry about it later on, then when one or two mods go on a campaign of their own the whole project suffers!

Mod_Sense I think you need to discuss what you have done, and are continuing to do, with your bosses and get their opinion. Bringing your own opinions to moderation is par for the course, but to get hung out to dry for them by the project is too!

we have a legal term for that: "arbitrary and capricious"

as i've said before, nothing personal against the mod, probably a nice person to have a beer with (assuming they drink beer), but, i personally think they've definitely crossed the line...

and apparently, so does a majority of the recent posters to the now-locked thread...

i think we were self-moderating quite nicely among ourselves, thank-you...

am hopeful that the thread will be unlocked, the original post that precipated this situation is restored, and the mod offers an apology...

carry on...

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We just have to wait for Dr. B. as head of the project and the boss of all things related to Rosie to make his decision. Also since the school's Attorney General has been notified of possible abuse of power and censorship we will have to wait and see what happens from that end as well.

I propose we all should exchange email addresses via the inbox and then we can speak freely about what ever we want and not have to wait and see if the post gets removed or censored. It seems there are just 3 of us who actively chat here, so might as well move it off the boards.

While you are dreaming up new requirements, management structures, supervisory roles to fill, and procedures that assure compliance with all global internet, privacy, and copyright law, as well as campus, state, and federal laws, practices and guidelines...

Perhaps you could suggest a method that a moderator could use to determine whether any given piece of posted information is public domain, private, copyrighted, trade-secret, pertains to a public figure, or just a reference to the middle of the pacific ocean. And while you are at it, I'm sure it would be helpful if you could suggest a method for a moderator to use that will assure noone is violating any of the posting guidelines via avatar or image encoded steganography, use of a foreign language, encryption or other encoding. Further, a means of verifying the content at any linked websites or images is never altered in the future to then violate any of the posting guidelines.

And I'll caution you right now, the answer to #1 is not simply to Google the information. That only proves that it appears on another website, which is perhaps itself not in compliance with everything mentioned in paragraph 1. Proving that someone else has published information is not proof of public domain. For all a moderator knows the police are on their way to the site's owner with a warrant and a cease-and-desist order as we speak.

If you want to create a change, it is always helpful if you can bring solutions that make the change clearly desirable rather then just cut down the current activity, or delegate a task to a moderator with no guidelines as to defining things like public vs. private figures.

The other point to consider is the time your approach to verification of posted information will take. Noone wants to volunteer their time to do drudgery. I for one volunteer to help people, both the volunteer crunchers, and the Project Team. I won't feel like I'm helping people if I have 10 minutes of process to follow for every tidbit anyone ever posts to the message boards.

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Sense

You raise absolutely valid concerns / questions.

And I'll redirect you to a portion of what I said in the now-locked thread: many forums choose NOT to moderate for the reasons you cite, as well as the greater legal protection from accruing legal liability.

If there is no moderation, then any legal liability attaches to the poster themselves.

If there is moderation, then the forum owner has made a willful decision to accept liability for themselves if the moderation is not done properly.

Thus, if you choose to moderate, then you can't do it half-@$$ed.

I suppose the first question that needs to be asked is, given the recent (lack) of activity (relative to previous time periods) on the Rosie forums boards, are moderators needed? Are the forum posters reasonably self-moderating themselves? Are moderators going through posts with a fine-tooth comb just to justify their existence?

Second question is, are volunteer mods the best choice to prevent legal liability from attaching? Maybe paid professional moderators are the answer?

To address your specific questions:


There are none. That is my entire point. That is why I stated (in a post that was "moderated") that censorship can never win. It is merely a cat-and-mouse game. If information can't be posted directly, it can be linked to via hyperlink, stated in a foreign language, encoded via standard encryption, encoded via a steganographic avatar/image, encoded via steganography using pseudo natural language text, etc. Ban a user, they'll create a new account. Ban an IP address, they'll use VPN or spoofing, etc.

Four choices, as I see it:

1. Shut down the all forums for all of your volunteers who are donating their computer resources

2. Accept the limited legal liability that attaches with no moderation

3. Accept the increased legal liability that attaches with moderation, and treat forum posters as the enemy, requiring the moderators to have to go through every avatar/image file and every link to verify legality

4. Accept the increased legal liability that attaches with moderation, and treat forum posters as a valued volunteer donor, and allow them to self-moderate, and moderate only when there exists:

(a) incitement to commit a crime
(b) "imminent" danger to anothers health /safety
(c) use of "fighting words"
(d) libel / slander

5. If you treat posters as valued volunteer donors, they will essentially self-moderate themselves, without the necessity for major (time / effort) intervention by moderators. Treat posters as the enemy, and then you will have to expend significant resources to ensure that all of the valid and legitimate concerns you mentioned do not cause legal liability to attach to the state of Washington.

6. I STRONGLY object to having my post "moderated", solely because it listed Dr. Baker's contact information, which was taken directly from one of Dr. Baker's University of Washington websites.

Perhaps you could suggest a method that a moderator could use to determine whether any given piece of posted information is public domain, private, copyrighted, trade-secret, pertains to a public figure, or just a reference to the middle of the pacific ocean. And while you are at it, I'm sure it would be helpful if you could suggest a method for a moderator to use that will assure noone is violating any of the posting guidelines via avatar or image encoded steganography, use of a foreign language, encryption or other encoding. Further, a means of verifying the content at any linked websites or images is never altered in the future to then violate any of the posting guidelines.

And this is one of the issues that needs to be discussed with Dr. Baker and the Attorney General of the University of Washington. Apparently, in attempting to allow moderators to use their own judgment, some act in an arbitrary and capricious manner.

Apparently what is needed is clear set of guidelines, such as:

I. Dead people have no legal right to privacy, and thus their gravesite can be posted with latitude and longitude to 6-decimal precision.

II. Public figures have a significantly lower expectation of privacy than non-public figures. Thus, President Obama's Chiacgo address, which is freely available elsewhere, is permissible to be posted.

If you want to create a change, it is always helpful if you can bring solutions that make the change clearly desirable rather then just cut down the current activity, or delegate a task to a moderator with no guidelines as to defining things like public vs. private figures.

Which is why # 3 above is more likely than not, to be an unacceptable solution. Now, there are three other options remaining.

Look, I never said moderators had it easy, and likely they knew this when they accepted the responsibility of the position.

I simply think you over-reacted to Greg's post, and my post of Dr. Baker's contact information (among others).

In my humble opinion, and perhaps those of Dr. Baker and the UW Administration, I don't think your repeated "moderation" of posts and locking of the thread qualifies as "help(ing) people." Especially multi-year volunteers, who donate their computing resources to the Project.

Unlock the thread, restore Greg's post, and next time I travel to whatever city you're in, I'll buy you a drink, we can laugh about this, and all will be well in Whoville.

The other point to consider is the time your approach to verification of posted information will take. Noone wants to volunteer their time to do drudgery. I for one volunteer to help people, both the volunteer crunchers, and the Project Team. I won't feel like I'm helping people if I have 10 minutes of process to follow for every tidbit anyone ever posts to the message boards.

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin

-self moderation-

on penguin's xmas list:

NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 580: Fermi Refined

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin

issue "suddenly" resolved itself...

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Defeat Censorship! Wikileaks needs OUR help! Learn how you can help (d/l 'insurance' file), by clicking here. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" B. Franklin