Naive Quad Core to be released in August.

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Message 42865 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 5:17:59 UTC

it is official, the Naive quad core will be shipping for revenue in August.

the frequency is 2.0Ghz, the power efficency is lower than clowertown, and the performance will be way under a clowertown 3.0GHz.

Where is your performance lead of 40% over clowertown Mister Ruiz????

Naive Quad core, really, naive to think you could have produce a so big processor with a broken process!!!


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PS: This is my own opinion, my employer is not responsible for this posting, but darn ... it feels good to finally share what i really feel.
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Message 42875 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 13:03:39 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jun 2007, 13:04:18 UTC

Speaking of broken processors.....

CPU Bugs, Patches and Vulnerability

The fact that Microsoft is delivering fixes like this and being so unclear on what it's about tells me they think it's serious. We'll see if the updates show up on Windows Update or Microsoft Update.

Writing a patch like this isn't something that companies like Microsoft can do on their own; microcode is not like regular code, and it's apt to change between different versions of the processor or even steppings. Microsoft likely got the various updates from Intel and packaged them up in a single program. Expect similar updates from, for example, Apple, but de Raadt says (and he should know) that "Intel only provides detailed fixes to BIOS vendors and large operating system groups. Open-source operating systems are largely left in the cold."

I'm not afraid that processor bugs will turn into a serious vehicle for exploiting real computers. It sounds like a lot of work for what could be a low return. You're still better off exploiting whatever Microsoft patched last month. But, as de Raadt says, Intel is probably also hiding some errata, and they have a long history of withholding documentation from the public. Who knows how bad the unknown problems are?

and other links in this thread
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Message 42880 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 13:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 42875.  
Last modified: 30 Jun 2007, 13:45:39 UTC

Speaking of broken processors.....

CPU Bugs, Patches and Vulnerability

The fact that Microsoft is delivering fixes like this and being so unclear on what it's about tells me they think it's serious. We'll see if the updates show up on Windows Update or Microsoft Update.

Writing a patch like this isn't something that companies like Microsoft can do on their own; microcode is not like regular code, and it's apt to change between different versions of the processor or even steppings. Microsoft likely got the various updates from Intel and packaged them up in a single program. Expect similar updates from, for example, Apple, but de Raadt says (and he should know) that "Intel only provides detailed fixes to BIOS vendors and large operating system groups. Open-source operating systems are largely left in the cold."

I'm not afraid that processor bugs will turn into a serious vehicle for exploiting real computers. It sounds like a lot of work for what could be a low return. You're still better off exploiting whatever Microsoft patched last month. But, as de Raadt says, Intel is probably also hiding some errata, and they have a long history of withholding documentation from the public. Who knows how bad the unknown problems are?

and other links in this thread


Somebody is really broken, and it is not the blue CPU, it is the green?

on this one, i can t resist, make your opinion yourself:
AMD Errata Opteron

94 Sequential Prefetch Feature May Cause Incorrect Processor
Operation
Description
On an instruction cache miss, the sequential prefetch mechanism may enable the early prefetch of the
next sequential cache line. Under a highly specific set of internal pipeline conditions this mechanism
may cause the processor to hang or execute incorrect code in 64-bit systems running 32-bit
compatibility mode applications.
Potential Effect on System
Processor may deadlock or execute incorrect code.
Suggested Workaround
BIOS should disable IC sequential prefetch by setting IC_CFG.DIS_SEQ_PREFETCH (bit 11 of
MSR C001_1021).
Fix Planned
Yes


Hang! Hang!
now, remember, every processor has errata, the one you pointed out is fixable and is Fixed, some other processors are not fixable, as the ERRATA 94. You are pointing at the wrong direction, as usual Mister Bad_pengiun, but it is ok, we all know your fanboy hat is greeen, so, then you are a green fanboy, better to close your mouth about errata, because the green one require a recall, and this was NOT recalled.
so, I am sure you enjoy the Naive Quad Core, 2.0GHZ, it should take the CPU to the top 1000 of Seti, and top 200 of Rosetta ... hahahha


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Message 42881 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 13:45:00 UTC - in response to Message 42865.  

it is official, the Naive quad core will be shipping for revenue in August.

the frequency is 2.0Ghz, the power efficency is lower than clowertown, and the performance will be way under a clowertown 3.0GHz.
It was only through reading previous postings that I could guess you were talking about an AMD announcement for a product that competes with your employer, Intel. I found the AMD announcement HERE, and it would have helped me a lot if you had linked to it yourself so that I could understand what it was you were gloating about.

Continuing to lead the shift of mainstream enterprise computing to energy-efficient processors, AMD (NYSE:AMD) announced today that Quad-Core AMD Opteron™ processors, code-named “Barcelona,” are planned for shipment in both standard and low power versions at launch later this summer. This would be the first time AMD has made both standard and low power parts immediately available as part of a new processor launch.

Additionally, AMD today updated its projected timing on “Barcelona” availability and provided additional product details. AMD expects that the processors will begin shipping for revenue in August 2007, with systems from AMD platform partners beginning to ship in September 2007. Due to its enhanced architecture – it is the world’s first x86 CPU to integrate four processing cores on a single die of silicon – Quad-Core AMD Opteron™ processors can deliver significant performance and performance-per-watt enhancements over existing processor architectures yet are designed to be backwards compatible with existing AMD Opteron platforms.

With planned availability at launch in a range of frequencies up to 2.0 Ghz, AMD expects its native quad-core processors to scale to higher frequencies in Q407 in both standard and SE (Special Edition) versions. Designed to operate within the same thermal envelopes as current generation AMD Opteron processors, AMD estimates that the new processors can provide a performance increase up to 70 percent on certain database applications and up to 40 percent on certain floating point applications, with subsequent higher frequency processors expected to significantly add to this performance advantage.


Ever since the argument over whether a 1 MHz Motorola 68000 performed better than a 1 MHz Intel 8086 (it did; by a LOT), I've learned to take with a grain of salt any claims about processor of X speed was obviously much better than processor of X-Y speed. So, just because Intel's Clovertown processor goes at 3.0 GHz and AMD's Barcelona processor goes at "up to 2.0 GHz" that should not be taken to mean that the Barcelona is necessarily a poorer-performing processor than the Clovertown processor.

I frankly feel that the reasons people buy one processor over another usually have to do with the commitment of the systems manufacturer to a particular processor manufacturer rather than any inherent search for "the best-performing processor on the market today." Most processors are idle most of the time, which is where BOINC comes in....

But I do appreciate information you supply to us about your employer. I like Intel processors more than AMD processors. But that is a bias I've grown up with over three decades of use and isn't likely to be swayed by a single product announcement. I imagine that many others feel the same way about AMD.

== Bill
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Message 42883 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 13:55:03 UTC - in response to Message 42881.  
Last modified: 30 Jun 2007, 13:57:46 UTC

it is official, the Naive quad core will be shipping for revenue in August.

the frequency is 2.0Ghz, the power efficency is lower than clowertown, and the performance will be way under a clowertown 3.0GHz.
It was only through reading previous postings that I could guess you were talking about an AMD announcement for a product that competes with your employer, Intel. I found the AMD announcement HERE, and it would have helped me a lot if you had linked to it yourself so that I could understand what it was you were gloating about.

Continuing to lead the shift of mainstream enterprise computing to energy-efficient processors, AMD (NYSE:AMD) announced today that Quad-Core AMD Opteron™ processors, code-named “Barcelona,” are planned for shipment in both standard and low power versions at launch later this summer. This would be the first time AMD has made both standard and low power parts immediately available as part of a new processor launch.

Additionally, AMD today updated its projected timing on “Barcelona” availability and provided additional product details. AMD expects that the processors will begin shipping for revenue in August 2007, with systems from AMD platform partners beginning to ship in September 2007. Due to its enhanced architecture – it is the world’s first x86 CPU to integrate four processing cores on a single die of silicon – Quad-Core AMD Opteron™ processors can deliver significant performance and performance-per-watt enhancements over existing processor architectures yet are designed to be backwards compatible with existing AMD Opteron platforms.

With planned availability at launch in a range of frequencies up to 2.0 Ghz, AMD expects its native quad-core processors to scale to higher frequencies in Q407 in both standard and SE (Special Edition) versions. Designed to operate within the same thermal envelopes as current generation AMD Opteron processors, AMD estimates that the new processors can provide a performance increase up to 70 percent on certain database applications and up to 40 percent on certain floating point applications, with subsequent higher frequency processors expected to significantly add to this performance advantage.


Ever since the argument over whether a 1 MHz Motorola 68000 performed better than a 1 MHz Intel 8086 (it did; by a LOT), I've learned to take with a grain of salt any claims about processor of X speed was obviously much better than processor of X-Y speed. So, just because Intel's Clovertown processor goes at 3.0 GHz and AMD's Barcelona processor goes at "up to 2.0 GHz" that should not be taken to mean that the Barcelona is necessarily a poorer-performing processor than the Clovertown processor.

I frankly feel that the reasons people buy one processor over another usually have to do with the commitment of the systems manufacturer to a particular processor manufacturer rather than any inherent search for "the best-performing processor on the market today." Most processors are idle most of the time, which is where BOINC comes in....

But I do appreciate information you supply to us about your employer. I like Intel processors more than AMD processors. But that is a bias I've grown up with over three decades of use and isn't likely to be swayed by a single product announcement. I imagine that many others feel the same way about AMD.

== Bill


At 2 GHZ, it has no chance to get anywhere close to Core 2, based on the little architecture improvement from K8 to K10. the 128bits execution units can't process more than the 64bits one for scalar SSE2 floating point and x87. So, except if you run hand optimized ASM code, K10 will not see any preformance improvement over K8. Some for x86. So, if you remove the Mhz out of K8 (alreeady far behind Core 2), from 3.0Ghz to 2.0Ghz, then double the number of Cores ... you lose 33% frequency, and double the number of CPU, that does not give you a lot more performance.
Based on this simple but accurate math, it is easy to see that K10 will K5 x 2, the design is naive, and fail to compete.

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this is my own opinion, and i am the only one responsable for it.
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Message 42887 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 15:28:26 UTC - in response to Message 42880.  

Not a fanboy of either. Quite the opposite. Looking at the Q6600 after the July price cuts. I'll go where I can get the most "bang per buck" for DC purposes.....

and if you can get me to the top of the list for one of those 80 core doo-dads, I'd be happy!

You are pointing at the wrong direction, as usual Mister Bad_pengiun, but it is ok, we all know your fanboy hat is greeen, so, then you are a green fanboy, better to close your mouth about errata, because the green one require a recall, and this was NOT recalled.
so, I am sure you enjoy the Naive Quad Core, 2.0GHZ, it should take the CPU to the top 1000 of Seti, and top 200 of Rosetta ... hahahha


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Message 42905 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 18:35:43 UTC

Ahhh, like all electronics...doesn't matter what you buy it will be out of date before you get your money back out of it. And if you wait for the next best release of something before you buy then you will never buy anything at all because there is always a next best thing on the horizon. A real scam these electronics makers perpetrate on us.
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Message 42908 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 18:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 42905.  

Ahhh, like all electronics...doesn't matter what you buy it will be out of date before you get your money back out of it. And if you wait for the next best release of something before you buy then you will never buy anything at all because there is always a next best thing on the horizon. A real scam these electronics makers perpetrate on us.


Actually, the planned obsolesence of the CPU makers is pretty horrid if you cared much about it. By the time you see the first system in a store someplace that has CPU X inside of it, the labs will be announcing that the 2nd or 3rd subsequent generation of later chips is "about to begin production."

The AMD announcement I quoted (above) indicated that the first version would be out in August (middle-third-quarter) but by the 4th quarter, they would have faster versions out. But the shipments to stores for pre-Christmas sales will be at best the CPU chips from August/September. And at worst, they will be the ones left over from last year that didn't sell and now need to be unloaded on an unwary buying public.

== Bill
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Message 42926 - Posted: 30 Jun 2007, 20:47:57 UTC

the moment something is shipped from the factory R&D already has the newer and most high tech thing almost ready to come out of its lab for production. you can never have the latest and greatest thing when it comes to cpu's as there is always one better right behind the one you bought.
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Message 42939 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 5:11:47 UTC

no offense, but your post are darn annoying.
They have nothing to do with Rosetta, open ure own forum and brag about your non existing advantages - wonder how many ppl coming to applaude u - 0 ?

-1, mods should close this, this aint an intel advertising & dissing forum, really lowers the fun to read here...
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Message 42941 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 5:33:11 UTC - in response to Message 42939.  
Last modified: 1 Jul 2007, 5:36:23 UTC

I welcome the personal observations from Rosetta members, and I also feel free to share mine (usually in the form of technology related articles).

And imho, these observations and articles ARE related to DC and Rosetta.

+1 to op
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Message 42945 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 8:07:17 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jul 2007, 8:08:02 UTC

by theory, this entire board has nothing to do with Rosetta as its about number crunching and number crunching opens alot of possibilities about what computer is best for crunching RAH or others programs. This thread shows what technology is coming out and if you got the money to get you could apply it to RAH for its power to crunch high volumes. If the mods thought this was not a good thread they would have closed it. Sailor you can always report it if your so offended by it.
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Message 42946 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 8:10:51 UTC

These posts, in my opinion, while can be irritating to some (and quite easily ignored if you don't want to read them) can also start some good banter... er talk about CPU's. This is the number crunching area of this message board and by definition Credit, leaderboards, CPU performance, means this post is perfect for this section....

The true Rosetta@Home science is in the section just above this.


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Message 42948 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 11:19:55 UTC - in response to Message 42946.  

Bravo Fluffy! Thats what I was looking for but couldn't express properly.

These posts, in my opinion, while can be irritating to some (and quite easily ignored if you don't want to read them) can also start some good banter... er talk about CPU's. This is the number crunching area of this message board and by definition Credit, leaderboards, CPU performance, means this post is perfect for this section....

The true Rosetta@Home science is in the section just above this.



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Message 42949 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 11:26:38 UTC

so you are saying, talking about a "naive quad core" is CPU talk? lmfao

I myself actually do like to talk about CPUs and technic related things, but these post have 0% information and 100% flame - I could go open a thread saying 1 sentence : "Everyone with an Intel CPU is a fag" - it would be the same in green.

Im saying discussion here should remain on an open minded and intelligent level. Those post from that guy are far away from it.
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Message 42953 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 12:20:12 UTC

+1 to OP (back to zero). This rating stuff -1 to make it disappear for "default" users is getting to be pretty childish.

I agree that in a "Number Crunching" forum, discussions of CPU performance and how to improve the amount of "Number Crunching" going on are all right on topic and anybody who finds these discussions to be the least bit offensive should head off to one of the other forums.

== Bill
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Message 42958 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 13:20:22 UTC - in response to Message 42949.  

now who's flaming users? geeees get a grip or just ignore this thread
so you are saying, talking about a "naive quad core" is CPU talk? lmfao

I myself actually do like to talk about CPUs and technic related things, but these post have 0% information and 100% flame - I could go open a thread saying 1 sentence : "Everyone with an Intel CPU is a fag" - it would be the same in green.

Im saying discussion here should remain on an open minded and intelligent level. Those post from that guy are far away from it.


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Message 42959 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 13:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 42958.  

now who's flaming users? geeees get a grip or just ignore this thread
so you are saying, talking about a "naive quad core" is CPU talk? lmfao

I myself actually do like to talk about CPUs and technic related things, but these post have 0% information and 100% flame - I could go open a thread saying 1 sentence : "Everyone with an Intel CPU is a fag" - it would be the same in green.

Im saying discussion here should remain on an open minded and intelligent level. Those post from that guy are far away from it.



rofl - learn to read, im helping you : I could go open a thread
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Message 42964 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 14:13:49 UTC - in response to Message 42959.  

now who's flaming users? geeees get a grip or just ignore this thread
so you are saying, talking about a "naive quad core" is CPU talk? lmfao

I myself actually do like to talk about CPUs and technic related things, but these post have 0% information and 100% flame - I could go open a thread saying 1 sentence : "Everyone with an Intel CPU is a fag" - it would be the same in green.

Im saying discussion here should remain on an open minded and intelligent level. Those post from that guy are far away from it.



rofl - learn to read, im helping you : I could go open a thread


OI! my bad...thats what quick reading while being distracted gets you..hey why not open another thread! lol we could always use one more to read.
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Message 42965 - Posted: 1 Jul 2007, 14:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 42939.  
Last modified: 1 Jul 2007, 14:14:41 UTC

Sailor says:
no offense, but your post are darn annoying.
They have nothing to do with Rosetta, open ure own forum and brag about your non existing advantages - wonder how many ppl coming to applaude u - 0 ?
OK, no offense to you either...but Who? offers some evidence for his opinions. Where are your counter-arguments? Or open your own thread as you often like to suggest to others. I have no horse in this race so I don't care.
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