I just looked at the new CASP results (CASP7 target T0330 domain2), and two of the four "top predictors" have total credit of 0.00 (maverick and Kerr Sweetin), how is this possible?

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I just looked at the new CASP results (CASP7 target T0330 domain2), and two of the four "top predictors" have total credit of 0.00 (maverick and Kerr Sweetin), how is this possible?

And neither of them has connected to Rosetta since 2005.

Same deal with 'bioped' on the T0363 target.

Makes ya go "hmmmm...."

I hope the rest of the scientific process is slightly more accurate.

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Nemesis n. A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent.

Seems like they just randomly select "Top Predictors". Really makes you wonder doesn't it? I mean if it was a smaller, less organized project I'd be more suspicious of the project results and overall scientific value, however Rosetta seems to be a project that is "for real"; however I'd still like to hear some explanation for the "Top predictors" glitch.

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Why not give someone the chance to look in to it before throwing stones about the quality of the science being done here and whether or not the project is for real?

CASP was last Summer. Today, if ya want to "hold 'em" to who recorded what, they actually show you a chart of your results as compared to the rest of the project. So, clearly they're not hiding anything.

A simple miskey of a user ID number would be all it would take to explain this. But let's give 'em a weekday to look in to it, ok?

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Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

I just looked at the new CASP results (CASP7 target T0330 domain2), and two of the four "top predictors" have total credit of 0.00 (maverick and Kerr Sweetin), how is this possible?

The quality of the models has NOTHING to do with the amount of credits, it has all to do with the starting point in the model they got when they got the unit, the number of computations they did (the amount of time) and the fact that no other computer could crunch a better model. A tad of luck yes . This clearly shows how the random seeding works (yes good seed probably will go to those that compute more but not in all casses)
Regardless, instead of they being questioned they should be congratulated.

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Seems like they just randomly select "Top Predictors". Really makes you wonder doesn't it? I mean if it was a smaller, less organized project I'd be more suspicious of the project results and overall scientific value, however Rosetta seems to be a project that is "for real"; however I'd still like to hear some explanation for the "Top predictors" glitch.

What glitch?
The people that computed the best models did compute the best models. Rosetta/CASP for one have a very fool proof way of validating and comparing models: they actually have access to the real structures and models.

To be hones, I think your post doesn't do anyone here any good: It belittles small crunchers as well as it calls into question the integrity of the developers.
I may not like some of the developers ( I actually despise some of them) but I cannot fault their science.

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Jose: those two people have TOTAL CREDIT of ZERO. Meaning they did not crunch anything, did not return any results or models!

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Jose: those two people have TOTAL CREDIT of ZERO. Meaning they did not crunch anything, did not return any results or models!

Probably they had to reset or reattach or simply their credit count is not correct (Since when are credit totals infallible). Look for a glitch in that part of the project : the credit reporting part.

These could be members that have decided for reasons of their own not to have credits assigned/reported

Or could be members that after crunching have decided to detach and have no active computers reported in the last 30 days.

Or Members that have decided to change their profiles and are now participating under another name.

Many reasons that can explain that.
But what you are insinuating is that the model and cruncher were paired in the imagination of a developer/scientist/project manager. You are insinuating fraud.

Despicable , I am willing to grant you that some of the developers/scientists are despicable , jelly-fished spinned beings. That they are dishonest scientists, I wont: specially, on that flimsy evidence.

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

I just looked at the new CASP results (CASP7 target T0330 domain2), and two of the four "top predictors" have total credit of 0.00 (maverick and Kerr Sweetin), how is this possible?

Which of the mavericks are you talking about? https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/user_search_action.php?search_string=maverick

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Jose, rosetta posted a page which has links to their account. It's the top predictions page. It does look a little funny. I didn't know users could opt out of credit. Perhaps they had their accounts zeroed for posting to many flames (giggle, chuckle).

Jose: The one that is among the "Top Predictors" here
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/rah_top_predictions.php

Kerr Sweetin is the other "top predictor" with zero total credit

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Jose, rosetta posted a page which has links to their account. It's the top predictions page. It does look a little funny. I didn't know users could opt out of credit. Perhaps they had their accounts zeroed for posting to many flames (giggle, chuckle).

Tony, I was going to say something nasty that started with "Kiss my ...." but decided not to take the bait ( giggle giggle )

My team opted out of close to 4 Million Credits, so yes you can opt out of credits, but the models the people whose credits were zeroed out crunched are not erased. Ditto for the people the project erased their credits.

What that profile shows is that the person has been inactive for more than 30 days, that is past CASP deadline. Maybe he changed his name and merged his computers into the new account.


All I am saying is: Be careful with the accusations and the innuendos. Need I remind you of what happened the last time some of you , yes some of you began using words like cheating in this board?

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Perhaps they had their accounts zeroed for posting to many flames (giggle, chuckle).

PS Tony: if that were true your Credits would be in the negative side with a RAC of Minus a million .

Giggle,chuckle,chuckle,chuckle,chuckle

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Jose, rosetta posted a page which has links to their account. It's the top predictions page. It does look a little funny. I didn't know users could opt out of credit. Perhaps they had their accounts zeroed for posting to many flames (giggle, chuckle).

Tony, I was going to say something nasty that started with "Kiss my ...." but decided not to take the bait ( giggle giggle )

My team opted out of close to 4 Million Credits, so yes you can opt out of credits, but the models the people whose credits were zeroed out crunched are not erased. Ditto for the people the project erased their credits.

What that profile shows is that the person has been inactive for more than 30 days, that is past CASP deadline. Maybe he changed his name and merged his computers into the new account.


All I am saying is: Be careful with the accusations and the innuendos. Need I remind you of what happened the last time some of you , yes some of you began using words like cheating in this board?

Why would that whipe out the credit. It would just move the credit around.

P.S. How do you 'opt-out' of credit? I think you're taking some of the comments to heart a little to much. They're just some questions with some sarcastic style answers and speculation ;-) Chill out, let the mods and developers sort out the real answers.

There is one host for maverick in question, last contact was Nov 2005 (just put it to show all hosts.)
Kerr Sweetin again one host but last contact Dec 2005.
Neither has any credit, thought there where some tasks returning 0 credit back then (Win98 ?) but either way that Way before CASP units started...

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Team mauisun.org

Jose: actually they haven't contacted the server since Nov2005 and Dec2005 respectively

And to clear something up: I am not accusing anybody of anything, read my second post in this thread, I've said that if it were most other projects, maybe I could quickly jump to some wrong conclusions; but Rosetta seems to be a well set-up and organized project;

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Gijs is the same although has credit, no contact since Dec 2005

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Team mauisun.org

Jose, rosetta posted a page which has links to their account. It's the top predictions page. It does look a little funny. I didn't know users could opt out of credit. Perhaps they had their accounts zeroed for posting to many flames (giggle, chuckle).

Tony, I was going to say something nasty that started with "Kiss my ...." but decided not to take the bait ( giggle giggle )

My team opted out of close to 4 Million Credits, so yes you can opt out of credits, but the models the people whose credits were zeroed out crunched are not erased. Ditto for the people the project erased their credits.

What that profile shows is that the person has been inactive for more than 30 days, that is past CASP deadline. Maybe he changed his name and merged his computers into the new account.


All I am saying is: Be careful with the accusations and the innuendos. Need I remind you of what happened the last time some of you , yes some of you began using words like cheating in this board?

Why would that whipe out the credit. It would just move the credit around.

P.S. How do you 'opt-out' of credit? I think you're taking some of the comments to heart a little to much. They're just some questions with some sarcastic style answers and speculation ;-) Chill out, let the mods and developers sort out the real answers.

There is one host for maverick in question, last contact was Nov 2005 (just put it to show all hosts.)
Kerr Sweetin again one host but last contact Dec 2005.
Neither has any credit, thought there where some tasks returning 0 credit back then (Win98 ?) but either way that Way before CASP units started...

We asked the developers to erase the credits for a sub-team the same day we past Free DC for the first time. The credits were removed from our team total. We dropped to second again and we then proceeded to crunch our way to the top , again.

Yes I take any insinuation of cheating to heart.

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Jose: actually they haven't contacted the server since Nov2005 and Dec2005 respectively

And to clear something up: I am not accusing anybody of anything, read my second post in this thread, I've said that if it were most other projects, maybe I could quickly jump to some wrong conclusions; but Rosetta seems to be a well set-up and organized project;

If you had questions , you should have contacted the project in private.
IMHO

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This and no other is the root from which a Tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
Plato

Jose I'm not here to argue with you; I've simply brought up an issue that is interesting to me, and apparently some other people; you're entitled to your own opinion, and I respect it; that being said, I'm entitled to my own, and I think that this is an OK topic for a public discussion;

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Since the "Top Predictions" page also states:

These users will also have a chance to be acknowledged in scientific publications.

isn't it important that errors be corrected? A form of peer review.

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Nemesis n. A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent.