Do you really believe the use of banning would solve anything?

It would ensure a two week period of reflection before you/I/anyone else could post again. Time to relect on the real reasons for doing what we do. I care about Boinc. I care about the whole idea of being able to give otherwise unused cpu cyles to scientist/others to try and solve a problem that lack of equipment/money prohibits them from doing. I believe every project should be judged by each "participant" for it's merits alone (this requires credit parity or nearly so). If Rosetta were to leave boinc and go it alone. I would be OK with it. I fear they'd lose tons of cpu cycles, but I'd be OK with it. I remember trying to juggle Seti Classic and FAH by playing with "priority" settings, and to me, it just wasn't worth it. I ended up picking one over another. I believe the same would happen with Rosetta if they left the Boinc family, but as long as they are, they have chosen the right path, and that's working towards parity.

Microsoft has thousands of programmers and is still issuing updates/patches every week. Every project and Boinc itself will continue to develop, change, and grow. Noone should expect Boinc/projects to be perfect from the beginning or even EVER. Change is a good thing. If you've been watching the Boinc Family you'll notice that one by one, most projects are switching to fixed credits of one form or another. The are evolving. Sure there is always room for improvement and that's happening. It may not be fast, but it's happening. It's boincs answer to the implementation of third party clients and it's flawed benchmark system. It was slow in coming, it's even slower in full implementation, but it's happening.

tony

Tonny : I have no problems with fixed credits projects. I am running one now ..It only gives 5.71 credits per wu and a 3 point bonus if you reach a factor. I like the project and I am running it and woulkd run it even without the credits .

Again: you assume my position on credits and sometimes react to a wrong assumption.

Yes the banning feature is developed though not in use here. The prospect of having you and Jose as moderators though _without_ banning possibilities and is so entertaining, that I vote for that solution rather than to have the banning feature. :-)

You would noty be entretained after I moderate your posts . :P

As long as I could still read the reactions to your moderation marvel I would be compensated. ;-)

So I take it you are willing to apologize for the irrational comment ?

From my dead cold hands... ;-)

Jose I apologize for it although I feel it deep inside my heart you were not insulted by my post. You spotted a technical mistake I made, you spotted a slight emotional reaction inappropriate for us anonymous mod machines and indulgingly pointed it out. Congratulations!

Come on DE!!! There is no victory here that needs the congratulation part.

Yes I caught you in a reaction that was not proper for a moderator.

I know you are human, so please do not call yourself a machine or you will force me to slap you silly with a wet trout ( Man am I dating myslef.) That is why I held your feet to the fire.

Guess what? Had you been person XXXX , a regular poster, I would have probably would have let it slide .

Hold the thought: I dont even believe that myself :) ..Ok I would have gone after you with the reckless abandon of a wild banshee and gotten into trouble with other moderators. :)


So, peace.

Can we have a group hug?

Tonny : I have no problems with fixed credits projects. I am running one now ..It only gives 5.71 credits per wu and a 3 point bonus if you reach a factor. I like the project and I am running it and woulkd run it even without the credits .

Again: you assume my position on credits and sometimes react to a wrong assumption.

Jose, I know you care about what you care about. I think it's great you found something you love so much you'd do it without getting meaningless credits. My point was "boinc isn't perfect, NOTHING IS" But it's improving. My point wasn't about credits. Credits are just one place where it's improving. I remember Boinc 4.13 where every other WU ended in "download errors" and boinc 4.19 fixed that. I remember setting my cache (connect to preference) to 10 days and only getting 3 days worth. 4.35 (and the implementation of the work scheduler) made an effort to correct that. Now when I request 3 days work, I get three days. Boinc's not done there, they continually improve every facet of the program.

Stick around, it'll keep getting better.

https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=2312

Bad timing Matts. If you read this thread carefully , you will notice that even though there has been some meandering and highs and lows , some good has come from it.

I think this is the first time in eons ( days, weeks) that Tony and I have talked (not shouted ) to each other and not trough each other. That in and of itself is good.

carl.h:
You've moved to WCG, you've called for yet another non-rosetta Rosetta forum. You only seem to return here to endlessly argue, then disappear for a month. What do you hope to accomplish by doing this here? When you can answer that, why not find a diplomatic teammate to present that information or request?

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Tymbrimi
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=2312

Bad timing Matts. If you read this thread carefully , you will notice that even though there has been some meandering and highs and lows , some good has come from it.

I think this is the first time in eons ( days, weeks) that Tony and I have talked (not shouted ) to each other and not trough each other. That in and of itself is good.

Jose, I think it's a good thing too. However, to set the record straight, I have followed the request of your last email in which you "cut all ties". I haven't talked to you since that date (July 23rd). There was one post of mine with mentioned your plan of dropping boinc, but that was directed at another user, and you thought I was addressing you. I have posted info, but nothing directed at you until today. I am encouraged with the dialogue though.

tony

Tonny : I have no problems with fixed credits projects. I am running one now ..It only gives 5.71 credits per wu and a 3 point bonus if you reach a factor. I like the project and I am running it and woulkd run it even without the credits .

Again: you assume my position on credits and sometimes react to a wrong assumption.

Jose, I know you care about what you care about. I think it's great you found something you love so much you'd do it without getting meaningless credits. My point was "boinc isn't perfect, NOTHING IS" But it's improving. My point wasn't about credits. Credits are just one place where it's improving. I remember Boinc 4.13 where every other WU ended in "download errors" and boinc 4.19 fixed that. I remember setting my cache (connect to preference) to 10 days and only getting 3 days worth. 4.35 (and the implementation of the work scheduler) made an effort to correct that. Now when I request 3 days work, I get three days. Boinc's not done there, they continually improve every facet of the program.

Stick around, it'll keep getting better.

Boinc 4.13 is responsible for my graying hair.


I am running several DC projects in the Physical Sciences , Math and yes one in Biology that will keep me busy. I am also working on a special project that is giving me a lot of joy: I am helping proof read a PhD on the image of G-D as a spouse. Ah the beauty of the Songs of Songs and St John of the Cross.



As to staying arround here (Rosetta), I will try to go back to deep lurking. To be honest, I do not feel confortable here , since I am an outsider. Crunching Rosetta again is not an option for me. so I will only return out of lurking if I see the need . I hopw I dont have to come out again in the near future.

It would ensure a two week period of reflection before you/I/anyone else could post again. Time to relect on the real reasons for doing what we do.

Tony I hope you realise by now I am quite capable of a reasonable conversation or even argument without losing it and when I do lose it and it`s deleted (even though I receive no mail) I don`t moan. Howether there are times things are disagreed with such as the "F" word where I would have got a ban cos what I believed was and is still correct. This would have left me feeling passionately wronged and a ban would not have mattered, I`d have come back in another guise and let it be known. It really wouldn`t be a first !

Mod. T if you approach in that threatening manner what do you hope to achieve...cos I know what you`ll get ! You see my credits for this project, yes under my avvy ....KMA

For your information I have NOT called for another forum

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

Bad timing Matts.

Jose... if you would... summarize the 120 posts in this thread and state the good that has come from it... I for one am not going to spend the time to dig for the good in this post, and my experience with the project team is that they respond better to shiney metal on the surface of the ground, then gold buried within a mountain. So, if you wish them to hear the merits of anonymous moderation, I suggest it is probably a good time to collect them all together and say "THIS is what I was talking about".

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Add this signature to your EMail:
Running Microsoft's "System Idle Process" will never help cure cancer, AIDS nor Alzheimer's. But running Rosetta@home just might!
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/

Carl:

when I do lose it and it`s deleted (even though I receive no mail) I don`t moan.

Carl, I personally have entered comments when deleting your posts which are to be EMailed to you. If you are serious about never having received any such EMail notification, please post a test that I will then delete and enter a message to be sent to you.

[edit]Carl posted, I deleted and entered explanatory message. Carl, if your internet life is anything like mine, you have many EMail address. Please go to the "Participants" area and verify what EMail address you have registered for your account.

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Sense

carl.h:
Reread my last post. I asked two questions, I did not make a threat. As a moderator, if I'm supposed to be helping you, or relaying information, or whatever it is you expect me to do, I need help understanding what you want. I admit that I don't understand what you've been trying to accomplish with what you've been doing for the past few days. A more diplomatic teammate of yours could really help.

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Tymbrimi
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

Yep it`s the only account I use for projects and the like....

It is a hotmail account though so it`s M$ based ;-)

I have honestly never received a thing ! Not that I worry or need explanations most of the time !

Mod.T you question as to why I SHOULD be here yet I have put a lot of work into this project more than some here. If you speak reasonably to me you will get similar.

When you can answer that, why not find a diplomatic teammate to present that information or request?

What exactly are you trying to say with that ? It is belittling, like get an adult to come with you and explain.

I being part of this project even if past have as much right here as anyone else.

As a mod your comments were out of order.

For a Canadian it is about right though!
Wrong....I`ve just fell in who it is and why we don`t get on !

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

carl.h:
Reread my last post. I asked two questions, I did not make a threat. As a moderator, if I'm supposed to be helping you, or relaying information, or whatever it is you expect me to do, I need help understanding what you want. I admit that I don't understand what you've been trying to accomplish with what you've been doing for the past few days. A more diplomatic teammate of yours could really help.

Please read this post of yours and the other posts and originated threads: you have become a lighting rod because you have forced the attention upon you by the way your interfere on things and posts you don't understand as per your own admition.

With all due respect, if you don't understand something, don't interfere with those who do. ask for clarification before becoming an agent for anger.

My opinion on this topic:

Annonymous or not, moderators should not have two accounts. Someone had a good analogy earlier in this thread: You *can't* be referee and player in the same game.

No one can ever be sure you are really acting in a fair and unbiased manner....even if you do!

So if you want to moderate, then great! Be a moderator. But that should mean giving up posting under your private acount for the duration.

It also has the advantage of making the issue of anonymity moot.

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Reno, NV
Team: SETI.USA

carl.h:
When someone goes through that much trouble to get away from us, disappears for 3 weeks to a month at a time, only to return and require moderation for their short stay and disappears again to restart the cycle.. they might have some purpose in mind. I assumed that there is something you want to get across to the Rosetta Team that is not being conveyed at the present.
If responding to someone that claims that they won't stop when requested, and that they'll simply return after being banned - asking for a diplomat seemed appropriate. If you find the request belittling, then I apologize.

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Rosetta Moderator: Mod.Tymbrimi
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

carl.h:
When someone goes through that much trouble to get away from us, disappears for 3 weeks to a month at a time, only to return and require moderation for their short stay and disappears again to restart the cycle.. they might have some purpose in mind. I assumed that there is something you want to get across to the Rosetta Team that is not being conveyed at the present.
If responding to someone that claims that they won't stop when requested, and that they'll simply return after being banned - asking for a diplomat seemed appropriate. If you find the request belittling, then I apologize.

I read through this whole thread and everything seemed to drift in and out but actually resolved some issues even if some were technically off topic. That was until someone started deleting posts. And at the end it seemed all was well then Mod.Tymbrimi seemed to jump in from nowhere and try to start things up again.
I think everyone should read all the posts before jumping in to any conversation because most issues will have been resolved already.

Mods, Most issues will resolve themselves without interference if given the chance.
Issue warnings without deleting posts.
You can state that all posts after XXX post will be deleted even if you can not actually close a topic if it gets too unruly.

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Mod Tymbrimi, don`t start hiding behind the Rosetta team now.

You and I have history.

This isn`t the first time you`ve belittled people and you`ve upset many good people from across the world. It won`t be the last if I let you get away with it. It`s not your fault I know, psychopathy isn`t.

If they in their wisdom let you hide behind them after today`s obvious episodes more fool them. I know who and what you are and this my friend is neutral ground with no mutual friend to hide behind this time !

But you didn`t say to anyone it was personal did you...you snake!

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

mmciastro and Jose, now I'm curious what your solutions are. I have slight doubts that they are identical though. ;-)

OK, here's the solution. As a cancer patient who doesn't work a 9-5 job, I have lots of time I can choose to allocate to whatever I choose. It appears Jose does as well. Make Jose a moderator, and my myself a moderator. Jose will then delete every single post that doesn't line up exactly with what his vision of this project should be. Then I will delete every post that supports his views/side of any issue.

What would be left is only the posts that can't conceivably be leaned one way or another. Posts by newbies asking for help would probably make it through both filters and that's what we really only need to see/respond to anyway.

tony

The only time that we will possibly agree..I can see my friend Jose hitting the delete button so hard that he dents the keyboard!<BG?
You gentleman want to settle all this?
Get Dr. Baker out here, have him read at least some of whats been said and then take off the lab coat, remember what it was like to actually talk with people without picking the words a week in advance and say loud and clear: I screwed up! I didn't understand you bunch of wacko dedicated crunchers and the set of principles you live by"
Dr. Baker: You aren't ever going to have me back on this project. You and I just went to far for either one of us to ever trust the other BUT you could go a long way to repairing the nightmare thats been created here by just opening your mouth and discussing it with these people.
I don't care how smart you are or how many PHD's from how many universities, come and be a human being and straighten this out.
With few exceptions the people that support you are NOT PHD's but people who talk in simple and straight language and that is what they have needed to hear for weeks from you.
To David Kim: We aren't all stupid so stop thinking that we are.
I might just possibly be able to beat you in a game of chess.<BG>
The overall major mistake that was made in this place was the thinking that the people that support you aren't up to your intelectual level.
Cripes, My IQ is in the 150 range. I'm not a genius but I can damned well understand just about any subject matter you'd care to discuss.
I might have a hot temper but that doesn't negate intellect and how you treated (us) made a great deal of people feel as if you thought we were intellectually inferior to you when the God's truth is that all we wanted was to help you.
I wish to hell that I'd been able to get that through your head months ago.
If you want your project to do well long term, talk to all of these people as if they are your equals and talk straight. That's the cheapest and best advice that your ever going to get..
And one other thing: No anonymous moderators..

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This email is sent to inform you that one of your posts in the forum has been affected by moderation in Rosetta@home:
Thread: No annonymous moderators
Link: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta//forum_thread.php?id=2309

The moderator gave this explanation to why your post was moderated:
Nemesis:
Please refrain from quoting public guessing as to our identities.
Mod.Tymbrimi


This was the contents of your post:

Carl:
Easy answer to this is one simple statement:
Mod Tymbrimi is tralala..
This post ought to set record times for deletion!

Only if you're correct!

There is nothing "Off-Topic" about this. The topic IS "No annonymous moderators". This post was exactly on topic.

And now we have another imaginary, unposted, unkown rule crop up. It appears that we're not allowed to speculate on the identity of the anony-mods.

And apparently XS VS was correct, and "hit the jackpot", or "pinned the tail on the donkey", or whatever party game you prefer :)

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Nemesis n. A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent.