Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM: is the restriction really needed?

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Sid Celery

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Message 101409 - Posted: 20 Apr 2021, 23:56:31 UTC - in response to Message 101406.  

last compilation with notepad+


Line 42: 17-Apr-2021 06:53:00 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.
<...>
Line 831: 20-Apr-2021 16:13:52 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.

Ugh.
If it's any consolation, I'm estimating that when new tasks at the end of the queue arrive at the front of the queue to download, the RAM req't will be nearer 3775Mb...
...but it may take as long as 7 or 8 weeks to reach the front of the queue...
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mikey
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Message 101426 - Posted: 21 Apr 2021, 22:50:20 UTC - in response to Message 101409.  

last compilation with notepad+


Line 42: 17-Apr-2021 06:53:00 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.
<...>
Line 831: 20-Apr-2021 16:13:52 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.


Ugh.
If it's any consolation, I'm estimating that when new tasks at the end of the queue arrive at the front of the queue to download, the RAM req't will be nearer 3775Mb...
...but it may take as long as 7 or 8 weeks to reach the front of the queue...


So is it simply a matter of setting a 10 day cache and then aborting every one for the next week or so?
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Sid Celery

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Message 101432 - Posted: 22 Apr 2021, 0:52:06 UTC - in response to Message 101426.  

last compilation with notepad+


Line 42: 17-Apr-2021 06:53:00 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.
<...>
Line 831: 20-Apr-2021 16:13:52 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.


Ugh.
If it's any consolation, I'm estimating that when new tasks at the end of the queue arrive at the front of the queue to download, the RAM req't will be nearer 3775Mb...
...but it may take as long as 7 or 8 weeks to reach the front of the queue...

So is it simply a matter of setting a 10 day cache and then aborting every one for the next week or so?

Err... only if every single person does it. And a lot of current tasks do run on 60%+ of hosts. Maybe not.
And there was something about not allowing caches of more days than the deadline, so I'm not sure if the servers would allow anyone to do it either.
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mikey
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Message 101455 - Posted: 23 Apr 2021, 12:23:26 UTC - in response to Message 101432.  

last compilation with notepad+


Line 42: 17-Apr-2021 06:53:00 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.
<...>
Line 831: 20-Apr-2021 16:13:52 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.


Ugh.
If it's any consolation, I'm estimating that when new tasks at the end of the queue arrive at the front of the queue to download, the RAM req't will be nearer 3775Mb...
...but it may take as long as 7 or 8 weeks to reach the front of the queue...

So is it simply a matter of setting a 10 day cache and then aborting every one for the next week or so?


Err... only if every single person does it. And a lot of current tasks do run on 60%+ of hosts. Maybe not.
And there was something about not allowing caches of more days than the deadline, so I'm not sure if the servers would allow anyone to do it either.


I love when you talk techy...I was being silly and yes I know that Rosetta won't send you more work than it thinks you can do by the deadline. My point was though would getting and then aborting all those tasks bring the newer ones to the top of the pile? And if so how many would we have to abort...which you answered by saying "everyone" would have to do it. So in essence we have to just suffer thru the problem tasks, and people complaining about them, until the newer ones bubble up to the top.
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Sid Celery

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Message 101466 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 1:09:53 UTC - in response to Message 101455.  

last compilation with notepad+

Line 42: 17-Apr-2021 06:53:00 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.
<...>
Line 831: 20-Apr-2021 16:13:52 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 4060.49 MB is available for use.

Ugh.
If it's any consolation, I'm estimating that when new tasks at the end of the queue arrive at the front of the queue to download, the RAM req't will be nearer 3775Mb...
...but it may take as long as 7 or 8 weeks to reach the front of the queue...

So is it simply a matter of setting a 10 day cache and then aborting every one for the next week or so?

Err... only if every single person does it. And a lot of current tasks do run on 60%+ of hosts. Maybe not.
And there was something about not allowing caches of more days than the deadline, so I'm not sure if the servers would allow anyone to do it either.

I love when you talk techy...I was being silly and yes I know that Rosetta won't send you more work than it thinks you can do by the deadline. My point was though would getting and then aborting all those tasks bring the newer ones to the top of the pile? And if so how many would we have to abort...which you answered by saying "everyone" would have to do it. So in essence we have to just suffer thru the problem tasks, and people complaining about them, until the newer ones bubble up to the top.

By techy, I think you meant one of my completely humourless comments. I'm moody like that sometimes
I think your last sentence is basically right. That's my assumption anyway. Looking at no earlier than June :(
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mikey
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Message 101468 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 2:13:34 UTC - in response to Message 101466.  


By techy, I think you meant one of my completely humourless comments. I'm moody like that sometimes
I think your last sentence is basically right. That's my assumption anyway. Looking at no earlier than June :(


LOL yes that's what I meant. And yes I was afraid that was the timeline you were thinking about...BOOOOO!!!
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Sid Celery

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Message 101470 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 3:42:05 UTC - in response to Message 101468.  

I think your last sentence is basically right. That's my assumption anyway. Looking at no earlier than June :(

LOL yes that's what I meant. And yes I was afraid that was the timeline you were thinking about...BOOOOO!!!

I hope I'm completely wrong. I'm only guessing - I have no info on it.
I'd rather give a worst case and beat it than be hopeful and fail over and over again
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Kissagogo27

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Message 101471 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 9:09:18 UTC
Last modified: 24 Apr 2021, 9:12:22 UTC

Lastest News ...

from 2Go pcs..

24-Apr-2021 08:12:31 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] No tasks sent
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 3814.70 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.


24-Apr-2021 06:58:50 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 06:58:50 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] No tasks sent
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 3814.70 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.


from 4Go PC

24-Apr-2021 07:25:01 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 07:25:01 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 07:25:04 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 07:25:06 [Rosetta@home] Started download of beta_nov16.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:06 [Rosetta@home] Started download of norn_pssm_layered_nocart_design.xml
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of beta_nov16.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of norn_pssm_layered_nocart_design.xml
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Started download of TMWFYIV_0.043_0.017_0.028_0.036_0.044_0.052_0.092.comp
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Started download of 637a8efda3eb4c5354857ca3cbff9287_3fp9A_L5L3L7L5L4L3_61_TrR_FOLD_1_0_0.25.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:10 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of TMWFYIV_0.043_0.017_0.028_0.036_0.044_0.052_0.092.comp
24-Apr-2021 07:25:11 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of 637a8efda3eb4c5354857ca3cbff9287_3fp9A_L5L3L7L5L4L3_61_TrR_FOLD_1_0_0.25.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:39 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 07:25:39 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 07:25:42 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 07:25:44 [Rosetta@home] Started download of fr_flags_bcov2
24-Apr-2021 07:25:44 [Rosetta@home] Started download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:45 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of fr_flags_bcov2
24-Apr-2021 07:25:45 [Rosetta@home] Started download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:46 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:50 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.zip


new sort of WU downloaded
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mikey
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Message 101473 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 12:21:06 UTC - in response to Message 101470.  

I think your last sentence is basically right. That's my assumption anyway. Looking at no earlier than June :(

LOL yes that's what I meant. And yes I was afraid that was the timeline you were thinking about...BOOOOO!!!


I hope I'm completely wrong. I'm only guessing - I have no info on it.
I'd rather give a worst case and beat it than be hopeful and fail over and over again


I agree
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PorkyPies

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Message 101475 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 14:01:53 UTC

Even if the memory requirement drops to 3.75GB free with the later tasks that won't help the Pi4 2GB or 4GB. Looking at a Pi4 4GB it has 3.6GB free memory and its not even running BOINC. The other single board computers like the Pi will have the same issue as they typically come with 2 or 4GB of memory. This means the minimum memory to be able to run Rosetta@home is 8GB.
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 101481 - Posted: 24 Apr 2021, 20:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 101475.  

This means the minimum memory to be able to run Rosetta@home is 8GB.
Yet as Kissagogo27 pointed out in his post before yours, Tasks will run on 4GB system, depending on what it is already doing and your available RAM settings in your computing preferences.
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mikey
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Message 101484 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 2:35:12 UTC - in response to Message 101475.  

Even if the memory requirement drops to 3.75GB free with the later tasks that won't help the Pi4 2GB or 4GB. Looking at a Pi4 4GB it has 3.6GB free memory and its not even running BOINC. The other single board computers like the Pi will have the same issue as they typically come with 2 or 4GB of memory. This means the minimum memory to be able to run Rosetta@home is 8GB.


So does that mean the newer 8gb Pi might just work?
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PorkyPies

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Message 101486 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 2:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 101484.  

So does that mean the newer 8gb Pi might just work?

Yes they do. I have 8 running at the moment.
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PorkyPies

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Message 101487 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 3:28:14 UTC - in response to Message 101481.  
Last modified: 25 Apr 2021, 3:31:33 UTC

Yet as Kissagogo27 pointed out in his post before yours, Tasks will run on 4GB system, depending on what it is already doing and your available RAM settings in your computing preferences.

The Pi4 4GB has 3845MB after setting the video memory to the minimum. That is its total memory on a head-less machine according to top. After counting BOINC, O/S services and so on its got less than 3814MB available.
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Kissagogo27

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Message 101491 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 9:33:44 UTC

Windows uses 4Go memory with 4Go swap file ...

peharps u needs to do https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-swap-file/ increase ;)
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Sid Celery

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Message 101495 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 10:50:22 UTC - in response to Message 101471.  
Last modified: 25 Apr 2021, 11:19:25 UTC

Lastest News ...

from 2Go pcs..

24-Apr-2021 08:12:31 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] No tasks sent
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.
24-Apr-2021 08:12:34 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 3814.70 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.


24-Apr-2021 06:58:50 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 06:58:50 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] No tasks sent
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 3814.70 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.
24-Apr-2021 06:58:53 [Rosetta@home] Rosetta needs 6675.72 MB RAM but only 2012.49 MB is available for use.


from 4Go PC

24-Apr-2021 07:25:01 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 07:25:01 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 07:25:04 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 07:25:06 [Rosetta@home] Started download of beta_nov16.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:06 [Rosetta@home] Started download of norn_pssm_layered_nocart_design.xml
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of beta_nov16.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of norn_pssm_layered_nocart_design.xml
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Started download of TMWFYIV_0.043_0.017_0.028_0.036_0.044_0.052_0.092.comp
24-Apr-2021 07:25:09 [Rosetta@home] Started download of 637a8efda3eb4c5354857ca3cbff9287_3fp9A_L5L3L7L5L4L3_61_TrR_FOLD_1_0_0.25.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:10 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of TMWFYIV_0.043_0.017_0.028_0.036_0.044_0.052_0.092.comp
24-Apr-2021 07:25:11 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of 637a8efda3eb4c5354857ca3cbff9287_3fp9A_L5L3L7L5L4L3_61_TrR_FOLD_1_0_0.25.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:39 [Rosetta@home] Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
24-Apr-2021 07:25:39 [Rosetta@home] Requesting new tasks for CPU
24-Apr-2021 07:25:42 [Rosetta@home] Scheduler request completed: got 1 new tasks
24-Apr-2021 07:25:44 [Rosetta@home] Started download of fr_flags_bcov2
24-Apr-2021 07:25:44 [Rosetta@home] Started download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.zip
24-Apr-2021 07:25:45 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of fr_flags_bcov2
24-Apr-2021 07:25:45 [Rosetta@home] Started download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:46 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.flags
24-Apr-2021 07:25:50 [Rosetta@home] Finished download of miniprotein_relax10_SAVE_ALL_OUT_IGNORE_THE_REST_1cg1pp2i.zip


new sort of WU downloaded

I've been away for a few days - now home - and a quick check on my own machine told me some new RAM limit tasks had already come through.
And I arrive here to discover you already know and confirm it. I was guessing 3775Mb would be the demand - very close to 3814.7Mb. Note: the Disk req't is the same, reduced from 8.5Gb

I've identified the tasks with the reduced RAM and Disk req'ts as:

"miniprotein_relax10"
"norn_struct_profile_layered_design"
"3cl_10aa_3CL_AVLstub"
"10mer_3cl_3CL_AVLstub"

While all the "pre_helical_bundles" tasks still require 6675.72Mb RAM (& 8583Mb Disk space)

I've got various World Community Grid tasks here and noted what they require, if it's of use to anyone

Open Pandemics (CV19) - RAM 240Mb, Disk - 96Mb
Mapping Cancer Markers - RAM 400Mb, Disk - 500Mb
Microbiome Immunity Project - RAM 650Mb, Disk - 250Mb
Africa Rainfall Project - RAM 1024Mb, Disk - 1536Mb

So, if you need an alternative project...

Glad to be so wrong about when to expect these slightly-reduced but still huge tasks.

I also note "In Progress" tasks have increased to 384k - still 30% down from what it was in March, but 20% more than what it dropped to. This may be as good as it gets though...

Edit: Correction - In Progress was 384k a few days ago too, but dropped to 350k, so it's just returned to what it was. Hopeful now it may go a little higher still.
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PorkyPies

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Message 101496 - Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 10:55:46 UTC - in response to Message 101491.  
Last modified: 25 Apr 2021, 10:57:58 UTC

Windows uses 4Go memory with 4Go swap file ...

peharps u needs to do https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-swap-file/ increase ;)

Indeed Windows and most Linux flavors allocate a swap file the same size as physical memory. For some reason, probably historical, the Raspberry Pi foundation allocate 100MB to this day. Increasing it should allow it to download tasks although I haven't tried it.
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Sid Celery

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Message 101550 - Posted: 27 Apr 2021, 0:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 101475.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2021, 0:34:29 UTC

Even if the memory requirement drops to 3.75GB free with the later tasks that won't help the Pi4 2GB or 4GB. Looking at a Pi4 4GB it has 3.6GB free memory and its not even running BOINC. The other single board computers like the Pi will have the same issue as they typically come with 2 or 4GB of memory. This means the minimum memory to be able to run Rosetta@home is 8GB.

I've been having a chat about this and I've been asked to do a mini-survey.

As the thread title says, RAM req'ts shot up to 6675.72Mb and we've managed to reduce this to 3814.7Mb on the majority of tasks coming down now, but is this enough to allow 4Gb machines to run Rosetta tasks?
This question applies to all hosts, but only for people with 4Gb RAM machines - PC or Raspberry Pi
(Admission: I don't even know what a Raspberry Pi is, but I'm running with this anyway)

There's the possibility that RAM req'ts can be edged down further and if that allows 4Gb RAM machines to run Rosetta that's a whole category of hosts who don't have to abandon the project.
Note, there's also the possibility that RAM req'ts <can't> be reduced further, but I've tried to impress on the Project guys that the reason people here get upset is that you want to contribute so much, that if you can scrape into the minimum resource req'ts then you'll hang around and everyone wins.
If the Project can't do its work with less RAM then it won't be changed but, while they look to confirm that, they're prepared to show willing.

What is the exact free RAM figure you guys have available to Boinc?
The line within the Boinc Event log is the most relevant one.
I've looked back over several threads where people have copied over their Event log and I've come up with the following figures, but you tell me if you have something different

3653Mb
3972Mb
3700Mb
3460Mb
4060Mb

To find this figure, go into your Options/Computing Preferences, select the Disk and Memory tab and set the "When Computer is not in use, use at most" %age to the highest you can afford (like 95% or more), click Ok and in your Event log copy the amount of RAM showing under "max memory usage when idle:" and post it in reply to this message.

I only want to get back to them once, so I'll leave this up for a couple of days before collating your replies.
After that, if a particularly low figure comes in it may be easier to adjust your Boinc settings than those of the tasks.
TIA
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Message 101552 - Posted: 27 Apr 2021, 13:22:09 UTC - in response to Message 101486.  

So does that mean the newer 8gb Pi might just work?

Yes they do. I have 8 running at the moment.


WOO HOO!!
Thank you very much!!
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Message 101553 - Posted: 27 Apr 2021, 13:36:09 UTC - in response to Message 101550.  

Sid Celery said:
As the thread title says, RAM req'ts shot up to 6675.72Mb and we've managed to reduce this to 3814.7Mb on the majority of tasks coming down now, but is this enough to allow 4Gb machines to run Rosetta tasks?
This question applies to all hosts, but only for people with 4Gb RAM machines - PC or Raspberry Pi
(Admission: I don't even know what a Raspberry Pi is, but I'm running with this anyway)


Here's a link to a search about Raspberry Pi's so you can at least know what they are. Essentially they are Arm cpu's as opposed to AMD or Intel and the current version comes with 4 cpu cores and 4 or 8gb of onboard ram. They are SLOW crunchers only running at @1.6ghz and require some tweaking to make them do exactly what you want them to do for crunching here at Rosetta but they can crunch Einstein and Universe as soon as Boinc is loaded up and running on a 16gb micro SD card. Once setup they are pretty much like any other pc people have except the cost is around $120US to be up and running with the Pi, the case, the heat sinks and all the cables except a standard usb keyboard and mouse. They even have wifi built in but there is also a 1gb plug for an internet cable if you want it that way. If you use VNC they can even be run remotely.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=raspberry+pi+4+model+b&qs=HS&pq=raspberry+pi&sk=HS1&sc=8-12&cvid=1B78618E723941D4AB49FB63380AFFC9&FORM=QBLH&sp=2

If you need more info the User PorkyPies is VERY experienced and who unbeknownst to him has helped me alot in getting mine up and running.
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