@The Bad Penguin

Yes the rear panel should fit. Actually a new mobo comes with a air outlet customized to the mobo which fits in the hole for the rear panel of every case.

What do you want to build? A dedicated Rosetta cruncher which you won't use for other tasks? Or a reasonble cheap system which can crunch Rosett but also use for other tasks? Would you like to play 3D games on your new machine? The two items which are different according to your intentions are the hard disk (the cheapest and smallest one for a dedicated cruncher) and the graphic card (on-chip-solution, if you don't want to play modern 3D-Games).

You can use your old case but does it have a decent power supply? An old 250 Watt power supply is not recommended. I would get a decent efficient 350 Watt new one. Cases are quite inexpensive so I would buy one as well:

Here is my configuration:

ASRock AM2NF4G-SATA2 (cheap, has onboard graphic and good overclocking capabilities) - 67 $
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2 - 152 $
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (G.Skill is a good brand and you don't need faster RAM, it makes very little difference) - 169 $
APEX PC-115 Beige Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply (cheap but should do) - 26$ plus shipping
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3250620AS 250GB 7200 RPM (a bit expansive but a really good drive) - 79 $

That's it: A whopping 493 $ plus some shipping on newegg. If it's a dedicated cruncher, take half the memory (2x512MB) and a 50$ hard disk, which saves you combined 115 $. If you want to do 3D-games buy a good graphic card, but here I have no experience. ;-)


edit: You should be able to overclock this to 2400 MHz easily. Beyond depends on your luck with the components and your experience.

@tralala,

Ok, given that I don't have to be paranoid about the real panel ports of a particular mobo misaligning with a case, here's what I'm thinking, for about $550:

Splurge on mobo (Gigabyte M59SLI-S4) = $110 @ tigerdirect

Go with your recommendations from NewEgg for $320:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2 - 152 $
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (G.Skill is a good brand and you don't need faster RAM, it makes very little difference) - 169 $

Go to CompUSA for $90:
Antec ATX case w/380w psu = $40 (after $50 rebate)
Western Digital Caviar 250gb sata hdd = $50 (after $90 rebate)

A Samsung LightScribe dvd/cd burner, SHS162LBEBN, $35 at NewEgg.

Some free version of Linux for o/s.

P.S. With the AMD X2's, are we getting the "EE" (enegrgy efficient 65 watt version, or the 89 watt version) from NewEgg?

What do you want to build? A dedicated Rosetta cruncher which you won't use for other tasks? Or a reasonble cheap system which can crunch Rosett but also use for other tasks? Would you like to play 3D games on your new machine? The two items which are different according to your intentions are the hard disk (the cheapest and smallest one for a dedicated cruncher) and the graphic card (on-chip-solution, if you don't want to play modern 3D-Games).

@tralala,

Ok, given that I don't have to be paranoid about the real panel ports of a particular mobo misaligning with a case, here's what I'm thinking, for about $550:

Splurge on mobo (Gigabyte M59SLI-S4) = $110 @ tigerdirect

Go with your recommendations from NewEgg for $320:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2 - 152 $
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (G.Skill is a good brand and you don't need faster RAM, it makes very little difference) - 169 $

Go to CompUSA for $90:
Antec ATX case w/380w psu = $40 (after $50 rebate)
Western Digital Caviar 250gb sata hdd = $50 (after $90 rebate)

A Samsung LightScribe dvd/cd burner, SHS162LBEBN, $35 at NewEgg.

Some free version of Linux for o/s.

P.S. With the AMD X2's, are we getting the "EE" (enegrgy efficient 65 watt version, or the 89 watt version) from NewEgg?

What do you want to build? A dedicated Rosetta cruncher which you won't use for other tasks? Or a reasonble cheap system which can crunch Rosett but also use for other tasks? Would you like to play 3D games on your new machine? The two items which are different according to your intentions are the hard disk (the cheapest and smallest one for a dedicated cruncher) and the graphic card (on-chip-solution, if you don't want to play modern 3D-Games).

That's a good deal I think. The mobo is a bit expansive but a superb mobo. I'm not sure whether the price is not a mistake by tigerdirect.com, but if not, it's a super deal.

@tralala,

Re the mobos, its a compromise. The SL-5 is about $180, the SL-4 is about $110.

"There are actually several features missing on the "S4" motherboard that are found on the "S5," aside from the heat pipes. For starters, the motherboard does not feature any external SATA connectors and the internal SATA headers have been reduced from 8 to 6. Only one of the nForce PHY Gigabit headers are enabled, and only one physical BIOS is present. The M59SLI-S4 also uses the ALC883 audio codec instead of the ALC888DD. However, Tritium support has not been removed on this board, so LinkBoost and other features should still appear."

P.S. Is the SL-5 worth thr extra $70? Maybe really only $45, as I'd have to buy a $25 Arctic Cooler for the SL-4, but the SL-5 has all those built-in copper heat-pipes all over the place.

P.P.S. With the AMD X2's, are we getting the "EE" (enegrgy efficient 65 watt version, or the 89 watt version) from NewEgg?

That's a good deal I think. The mobo is a bit expansive but a superb mobo. I'm not sure whether the price is not a mistake by tigerdirect.com, but if not, it's a super deal.

@tralala,

Re the mobos, its a compromise. The SL-5 is about $180, the SL-4 is about $110.

"There are actually several features missing on the "S4" motherboard that are found on the "S5," aside from the heat pipes. For starters, the motherboard does not feature any external SATA connectors and the internal SATA headers have been reduced from 8 to 6. Only one of the nForce PHY Gigabit headers are enabled, and only one physical BIOS is present. The M59SLI-S4 also uses the ALC883 audio codec instead of the ALC888DD. However, Tritium support has not been removed on this board, so LinkBoost and other features should still appear."

P.S. Is the SL-5 worth thr extra $70? Maybe really only $45, as I'd have to buy a $25 Arctic Cooler for the SL-4, but the SL-5 has all those built-in copper heat-pipes all over the place.

P.P.S. With the AMD X2's, are we getting the "EE" (enegrgy efficient 65 watt version, or the 89 watt version) from NewEgg?

That's a good deal I think. The mobo is a bit expansive but a superb mobo. I'm not sure whether the price is not a mistake by tigerdirect.com, but if not, it's a super deal.

If you don't need 8 sata drives and don't need to lans etc. than the extr 70$ are not worth the upgrade. In fact the mobo stands a bit out of your budget cruncher, since it is not really a budget mobo.

No you don't get the EE version, the EE version is more expensive. But it doesn't matter much, sicne even the standard X2 3800+ consumes less than 65 Watt. The TDP of 89 Watt is for the flagship X2 5000+ and an upper bound which is in practice rarely reached.

To find out what model processor is being sold to you, you need the third letter in the OPN (Ordering Part Number). The OPN for 3800+ X2 is one of:
ADO3800CUBOX (65W)
ADD3800CUBOX (35W)
ADA3800CUBOX (89W)

If it's low cost, it's most likely the higher power consumption version.

I take it you're actually planning to use this box for other work than just Rosetta, and you're actually "needing" the SLI feature?

If not, there's a GA-M55S-S3 which should be slightly less costly and do all the things you need for normal computing. as you're stating that the OS should be Linux, I very much doubt that you're going to use it for game-playing at the moment... At least not the latest/hottest SLI games that actually need this feature.

Why do you have to buy an arctic cooler? If you buy a boxed AMD processor, it comes with a heatsink/fan. And I just had a look at the NewEgg web-site, and it's an ADA3800CUBOX that you get, so it's got a heatsink/fan in the packet.

The heatpipes on the SL5 board is to remove heat from the chipset on the motherboard, nothing to do with the processor.

I couldn't find the above GA-M55S-S3, but I did find: M51GN-S2G for $89.99 at Tigerdirect. Should be fine for what you want to do, unless you really want SLI (twin graphics card) setup... This is a micro-atx motherboad, but it should fit in most normal ATX cases, it's just a smaller board (244 x 244 mm instead of 305 x 244 mm). Got built-in graphics on this board, so no need to buy a graphics card...

You could use the extra $20 towards buying a faster CPU if you actually want to spend more money... ($187 for 4200+ X2 processor at NewEgg). That will actually get you more score at Rosetta... ;-)

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Mats

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@Mats,

Not a gamer. Maybe one day I'll try and become hooked!

Thanx for "key" on power consumption. Just thought that since the intent was to crunch 100%, 24/7, in this particular instance, it would make sense to spend a little more to obtain the EE version. Seems to be about a $30 difference. May or may not save that much in electricity.

Don't "need" SLI, but I guess kinda nice to know its there if I ever do, or eventually want to upgrade and sell this mobo to help defry the upgrade costs.

I'll look into the X2 4200 vs 3800.

Stock fan is ok? Don't need Arctic Cooler?

Still confused a bit about price:performance ratio on mobos. Willing to go to about $100 to maximize. Know S5 is better than S4 is better than S3 etc.....

I did see at NewEgg for $69.99 the M51GN-S2G for $89.99 you saw at Tigerdirect.

I guess $69.99 is a real deal, then.

To find out what model processor is being sold to you, you need the third letter in the OPN (Ordering Part Number). The OPN for 3800+ X2 is one of:
ADO3800CUBOX (65W)
ADD3800CUBOX (35W)
ADA3800CUBOX (89W)

If it's low cost, it's most likely the higher power consumption version.

I take it you're actually planning to use this box for other work than just Rosetta, and you're actually "needing" the SLI feature?

If not, there's a GA-M55S-S3 which should be slightly less costly and do all the things you need for normal computing. as you're stating that the OS should be Linux, I very much doubt that you're going to use it for game-playing at the moment... At least not the latest/hottest SLI games that actually need this feature.

Why do you have to buy an arctic cooler? If you buy a boxed AMD processor, it comes with a heatsink/fan. And I just had a look at the NewEgg web-site, and it's an ADA3800CUBOX that you get, so it's got a heatsink/fan in the packet.

The heatpipes on the SL5 board is to remove heat from the chipset on the motherboard, nothing to do with the processor.

I couldn't find the above GA-M55S-S3, but I did find: M51GN-S2G for $89.99 at Tigerdirect. Should be fine for what you want to do, unless you really want SLI (twin graphics card) setup... This is a micro-atx motherboad, but it should fit in most normal ATX cases, it's just a smaller board (244 x 244 mm instead of 305 x 244 mm). Got built-in graphics on this board, so no need to buy a graphics card...

You could use the extra $20 towards buying a faster CPU if you actually want to spend more money... ($187 for 4200+ X2 processor at NewEgg). That will actually get you more score at Rosetta... ;-)

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Mats

When it comes to Rosetta, the motherbaord will make very little to make it better or worse.

I doubt very much that you'll get much for the motherboard if you sell it "used", whether it's got SLI or not.

Stock cooling solution is guaranteed for 3 years on the boxed products. If the CPU or cooling solution stops working, you send it back to AMD and it's replaced for the cost of shipping from you to AMD... If you don't use a stock cooling solution, you're essentially voiding your warranty, but of course it's possibly not easy to prove that - but you may need to send in the heatsink/fan and if it looks like you haven't used the one supplied by AMD, they may refuse to replace it for you...

If you're going to overclock, then you may need to go to a different colling solution - and then you definitely have no right to warranty on the processor anyways... ;-) [Again, it depends on what tests are done to verify the claim here, it may not be easy to prove whether a processor was run at a higher clock-speed than it was intended for...]

As to the power consumption, it's a balance of spending a little or a lot now or later... It looks like the 65W processor is roughly $50 more expensive (if you can find it for less than around $200, by all means go for it). How many months does it take to save $50 electricity? If you run the CPU for one year, you save 30W x 24 x 365H = 262 kWh. At 10c per kWh (which is roughly the average price in the US, ranging from 5-17) you get a $26.2 saving per year. So it takes almost two years for you to recouperate it through running costs alone. Obviously, if you feel that the lower power consumption is better for your local environment, then that's an additional factor that is hard to put a monetary value on... Note also that this is assuming that the 3800+ is using it's MAXIMUM allowed power. There are many factors that affect processor power consumption, and as tralala pointed out, the 89W power consumption is a nominal value that is certified by AMD, and most processors _WILL_ use less than this - how much less depends on how good the production of that particular processor was. The 65W processor is produced in the same plant, and most likely just selected from the same production lots as the higher power version, but selected because it performs better on the power level.

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Mats

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Thanx for the info!

When it comes to Rosetta, the motherbaord will make very little to make it better or worse.

I doubt very much that you'll get much for the motherboard if you sell it "used", whether it's got SLI or not.

Stock cooling solution is guaranteed for 3 years on the boxed products. If the CPU or cooling solution stops working, you send it back to AMD and it's replaced for the cost of shipping from you to AMD... If you don't use a stock cooling solution, you're essentially voiding your warranty, but of course it's possibly not easy to prove that - but you may need to send in the heatsink/fan and if it looks like you haven't used the one supplied by AMD, they may refuse to replace it for you...

If you're going to overclock, then you may need to go to a different colling solution - and then you definitely have no right to warranty on the processor anyways... ;-) [Again, it depends on what tests are done to verify the claim here, it may not be easy to prove whether a processor was run at a higher clock-speed than it was intended for...]

As to the power consumption, it's a balance of spending a little or a lot now or later... It looks like the 65W processor is roughly $50 more expensive (if you can find it for less than around $200, by all means go for it). How many months does it take to save $50 electricity? If you run the CPU for one year, you save 30W x 24 x 365H = 262 kWh. At 10c per kWh (which is roughly the average price in the US, ranging from 5-17) you get a $26.2 saving per year. So it takes almost two years for you to recouperate it through running costs alone. Obviously, if you feel that the lower power consumption is better for your local environment, then that's an additional factor that is hard to put a monetary value on... Note also that this is assuming that the 3800+ is using it's MAXIMUM allowed power. There are many factors that affect processor power consumption, and as tralala pointed out, the 89W power consumption is a nominal value that is certified by AMD, and most processors _WILL_ use less than this - how much less depends on how good the production of that particular processor was. The 65W processor is produced in the same plant, and most likely just selected from the same production lots as the higher power version, but selected because it performs better on the power level.

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Mats

Well, I woke up yesterday and found my P4 1.8 had taken the big dirt nap. After some thorough investigation it was decided the following items would be needed to fix it.

ASUS A8V-VM Socket 939 VIA K8M890 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: A8V-VM Item #: N82E16813131035 $52.99 $52.99
Has built in video, no need for vid card. SataII connectors, and 4 mem slots

ENERMAX Noisetaker II EG425P-VE SFMA 2.2 ATX12V 420W Power Supply - Retail Model #: EG425P-VE SFMA 2.2 Item #: N82E16817194012 $79.99 $79.99
Is 80+ eff from 30-100% load

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 2.4GHz Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4800CDBOX - Retail Model #: ADA4800CDBOX Item #: N82E16819103544
** This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only. $295.00 $295.00
is 110W but has 1M L2 instead of the 512's and that's important for my projects)

OCZ Enhanced Latency 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model OCZ4001024ELDCPE-K - Retail
Model #: OCZ4001024ELDCPE-K Item #: N82E16820146896 $116.99 $116.99

HITACHI Deskstar T7K250 HDT722516DLA380 (0A31637) 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM Model #: HDT722516DLA380 Item #: N82E16822145088
$53.99 $53.99

ASUS Combo Drive Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model CB-5216AG - OEM
Model #: CB-5216AG BK Item #: N82E16827135073 $26.99
actually this is for a different system

Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM
Model #: N09-01991 Item #: N82E16832116056 $89.99 $89.99

Subtotal: $715.94

Looks like a good setup.

Why are you buying a Windows XP? Doesn't the old system have Windows already? If so, you should be able to "move" the license across. As long as you're only using the license on one machine at a time, you can re-install & change configuration(s) as much as you like...

Did you look at a AM2 system - it seems like DDR2 memory is actually a bit cheaper nowadays, so it may pay for the extra cost of motherboard/processor [but I haven't looked at the diffs, so it may be better the way you're doing it...]

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Mats

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Looks like a good setup.

Why are you buying a Windows XP? Doesn't the old system have Windows already? If so, you should be able to "move" the license across. As long as you're only using the license on one machine at a time, you can re-install & change configuration(s) as much as you like...

Did you look at a AM2 system - it seems like DDR2 memory is actually a bit cheaper nowadays, so it may pay for the extra cost of motherboard/processor [but I haven't looked at the diffs, so it may be better the way you're doing it...]

--
Mats

The other OS was Winxpsp1 Hewlett Packard install disc. I believe it won't let me install it on another system. I don't think keeping the case and throwing everything else out counts as keeping the old system. LOL I looked at AM2 and processor selection is low at this time. I didn't see one with 1M L2 and AM2, and atleast for Seti L2 is more important than fast and higher capacity ram. Also, anything with the AM2 label seems to cost more. I just don't see the value in AM2 at this time. I don't think MB reuseability is high on my list since they're just about the cheapest part of the whole deal. LOL

Anyway, this should fix the ole P4 up just nicely and get her back to running. I just wish UPS ran after my wife went to work. If you know what I mean.

There were 1MB AM2 Athlon X2 but AMD stopped manufacturing them. Her in ol' Europe you can get an Athlon X2 4000+ AM2 with 2x1MB L2 @ 2.0 GHz for about 170 € but those are remainders.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.4GHz Socket 939 Dual Core Processor is 60 $ cheaper on Newegg but I doubt this is worth the saving. Do you overclock? If you do I'd rather recommend that mobo:

Foxconn 6150K8MA-8EKRS Socket 939 NVIDIA GeForce 6150 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard -
$66.99

Its just 14 € more but let's you run your X2 4800+ @ 2.7GHz for sure and probably even higher.

edit: Are OEM WinXP really only for the original hardware? Is that not a license for one comp, even if you change the hardware?

It's been ordered, changed cd/dvd combo to combo/burner, and added keyboard. Can't wait for Friday. Used 2day and rush order. I'll just tell the wife "I've got repair parts on the way", if she asks.

I can use the OEM WinXP cd to install on any machine with an actual OEM WinXP version install code that's for the Home or Pro cd I'm using. Some of the system recovery cds for Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc copy an image onto the HD, after verifying that the computer is the same as the one it was created for. If you have an oem winXP home install code on your system, and an OEM WinXP Home cd, then you can install onto the new setup. If the recovery cd copies an image onto the hard drive, then you're basically out of luck.

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but alas, all I have is the recovery CD which installs all the software (quicken, and all the "free offers"). Thanks for the thought though. I'm currently parting it out and distributing what I can.

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask, but since we're talking AM2 mobos: What is this that I am hearing about Physics Processing Units? Either being built into mobo, or having an available pci express 4x?

Is this something that needs to be considered for a mobo purchase?

I understand that this is something thats supposed to happen 4Q. Don't want to buy something now, when this is already in the pipeline.

Anyone know what this is all about?

Is this for scientific calculations (ala Rosetta) or gaming-only?

I feel a bit jaded with the video card processor DC clients and exciting new PPU DC client news. There always seems to be exciting news coming out; but 6 months later, there's a new class of video card processor. Every few years, there's a change to the video card slot. Older AGP cards won't plug in to the AGP slots in new motherboards because of voltage differences from the original standard and the current standard. A recent review of new games that support a PPU showed that there was little performance advantage from running the game with the PPU support turned on. The reviewers weren't impressed with the game's use of the PPU. The native video card performed about the same while performing the software version of the PPU optimized game.

For gaming, I'd recommend waiting until there's a killer app that you enjoy, and getting the right PPU that supports that killer app. And for DC use, I'd wait until there's a DC client for a PPU that gets a performance increase that justifies the expense of the PPU. Sony announced that their techs created or ported a DC app to the PS3 (Folding at Home, and the performance was incredible). Similar collaboration should be happening for the PPUs - although if you wait for the client to actually exist, you'll be able to relatively inexpensively upgrade to a motherboard with the right slot, and get the 2nd or 3rd evolution of the PPU, when it's less expensive and much more powerful.

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Ok, not a "gamer" myself.

Just wasn't certain if there was a DC aspect to it.

Impressive sounding name though, "Physics Processor".

I feel a bit jaded with the video card processor DC clients and exciting new PPU DC client news. There always seems to be exciting news coming out; but 6 months later, there's a new class of video card processor. Every few years, there's a change to the video card slot. Older AGP cards won't plug in to the AGP slots in new motherboards because of voltage differences from the original standard and the current standard. A recent review of new games that support a PPU showed that there was little performance advantage from running the game with the PPU support turned on. The reviewers weren't impressed with the game's use of the PPU. The native video card performed about the same while performing the software version of the PPU optimized game.

For gaming, I'd recommend waiting until there's a killer app that you enjoy, and getting the right PPU that supports that killer app. And for DC use, I'd wait until there's a DC client for a PPU that gets a performance increase that justifies the expense of the PPU. Sony announced that their techs created or ported a DC app to the PS3 (Folding at Home, and the performance was incredible). Similar collaboration should be happening for the PPUs - although if you wait for the client to actually exist, you'll be able to relatively inexpensively upgrade to a motherboard with the right slot, and get the 2nd or 3rd evolution of the PPU, when it's less expensive and much more powerful.

I can use the OEM WinXP cd to install on any machine with an actual OEM WinXP version install code that's for the Home or Pro cd I'm using. Some of the system recovery cds for Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc copy an image onto the HD, after verifying that the computer is the same as the one it was created for. If you have an oem winXP home install code on your system, and an OEM WinXP Home cd, then you can install onto the new setup. If the recovery cd copies an image onto the hard drive, then you're basically out of luck.

Of course you can always delete the partition with the image and start from scratch with an OEM copy and all drivers needed for the system on the HP/Compaq etc machines. Which would have saved Bad Penguin a small fortune BTW. ;-)

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