I can see this place getting quite messy in the coming weeks with people leaving due to heavy handed Mods be it intentionally or by accident but lets hope it doesn't drive too many out

I have seen a lot of posts asking... no pleading for moderators to do more. Along with that I have seen a lot of people asking for better structure on the boards. The project team has asked for help in sifting through the post so they can get at the issues and help the users get answers to questions and problems.

As a moderator (volunteer or otherwise) I owe it to the project team to do the job. Is it pleasant? No. It is thankless? Yes. Do people like what gets done? Only if THEIR post is not deleted.

From my point of view, I am receiving complains from both sides of these issues and arguments. I am old enough to know that that is a sign that I am doing this at about the right level. If all I was hearing was complaints from one side or the other, then I would have to take a long look at what is actually happening.

There are 36,000 people out there using these boards. I have heard direct complaints from about 5 of them so far about the flavor of moderation including this latest one. 3 of those understood what had happened after I explained it, and agreed I had done the right thing.

Please contact the project leaders using the link from the main project page for that purpose, if you think I should do something different.

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Moderator9
ROSETTA@home FAQ
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When folks try to have a mass debate like this, there will always be people who want to shoot off in the mouth. I intend to look the other way from now on.

It is thankless? Yes.

No! You have my thanks!

You can't please everybody all of the time, and I think you are doing a great job! :)

And conceivably perhaps I won't like in the future something you do to a post of mine, but as long as you do what you do, I will certainly not focus on it and look at the big picture.

Thank you!

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Regards,
Bob P.

So yes I agree it needs some formal rules but the interpretation of post`s should be left to mods. There are people who are extremely good at playing with hard defined rules and would make a mockery of them should they choose to do so, then proclaim their innocence.

agreed

We have to accept this is just a forum and there are no Courts to backup the ruling or appeal to.
The mods on Teddies board have my complete backing, there are few rules if any. If I don`t trust their judgement or it becomes out of touch they won`t be in that position, simple as that.Delegation.

But this forum has no "real" overview what is going on and lacks some necessary freedoms of opinion and speech ... as can be read in my sig ... I think further comments are needless .

A constructive idea about it : a real private corner and easier personal messages would take some trouble out of this unproductive talk about talk...

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Communication Basic No.1 :

Freedom is always the Freedom to dissent.

@Moderator9

Thank you...it is an annoying job to moderate, and you have my respectful appreciation for your efforts.

That said, I still maintain that, if such active moderation is to be undertaken, then a forum rules or forum policies link on the main page (similar to that at LHC@home) would be a good idea. (I guess you might also add this to your list of 6 points in the forum improvement thread).

... I will remove posts based on language content that would be unacceptable in polite mixed company usage. ...

That wording was intended to conjure an image, for each of us to use as a guide under which I will conduct my moderation duties. For most people that image is not of the sports pub, and it is not a bunch of mates out on a fishing trip. These are not normally considered polite mixed company gatherings.

I find it somewhat ironic that the very language that you use to explain offensive language would itself be considered offensive to many. The imagery of "mates...fishing" vs. "mixed company" directly implies quite strongly that women are to be protected from some sort of language that they are not equipped to handle. I realize that the number of women participating is much lower than the number of men (based on a BOINCStats.com poll), but if some of them are offended by being portrayed as such fragile beings, are you prepared to police yourself(or is sexist langauge not considered offensive...it is difficult to discern when there is no general forum policies document to consult and a moderator has, to at least a minor degree, used it in a post)?

I find it somewhat ironic that the very language that you use to explain offensive language would itself be considered offensive to many. The imagery of "mates...fishing" vs. "mixed company" directly implies quite strongly that women are to be protected from some sort of language that they are not equipped to handle. I realize that the number of women participating is much lower than the number of men (based on a BOINCStats.com poll), but if some of them are offended by being portrayed as such fragile beings, are you prepared to police yourself(or is sexist langauge not considered offensive...it is difficult to discern when there is no general forum policies document to consult and a moderator has, to at least a minor degree, used it in a post)?

I dont see anything there that is sexiest to women other than the way your mind has pictured what the mod has said

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I find it somewhat ironic that the very language that you use to explain offensive language would itself be considered offensive to many. The imagery of "mates...fishing" vs. "mixed company" directly implies quite strongly that women are to be protected from some sort of language that they are not equipped to handle. I realize that the number of women participating is much lower than the number of men (based on a BOINCStats.com poll), but if some of them are offended by being portrayed as such fragile beings, are you prepared to police yourself(or is sexist langauge not considered offensive...it is difficult to discern when there is no general forum policies document to consult and a moderator has, to at least a minor degree, used it in a post)?

I dont see anything there that is sexiest to women other than the way your mind has pictured what the mod has said

Exactly my point...what is offensive is defined by each individual. It has been stated earlier that the moderator should interpret what is offensive and delete accordingly. The moderator is not actually interpreting anything...without a set of guidelines (not a specific word listing, but a set of general policies for forum behavior), the moderator is simply applying his or her moral value system in the process of deleting offensive posts. While I am sure that Moderator9 (and all the other moderators) are wonderful people who are doing a very difficult job, I think it is unacceptable for this to be the moderating process. I should be clear here that I am not saying that moderators should not have any discretion. Instead, they should be interpreting a set of forum policies that are explictly provided to all forum users. This will provide more consistency in the moderating process and will provide forum users with a clear set of expectations (which is especially needed given the international composition of any BOINC-based project).

That said, I think this is the last I will say about this. It appears from the response that few agree with just about any of my points, so I guess I will just drop it.

Women should be fully covered head to toe at all times with only their eyes showing and they should not be permitted to drive cars.....that is the Saudi Arabian view anyway and who is to say they are wrong?

THe judgement as to what is permitted on here and what is not HAS to be left to the Mods......if they are wrong they will get the sack!

Being one of the minority females I guess I should speak up. If I'm offended you will hear about it. Using the term mixed company didn't bother me. Mods at this site or any other don't owe me an explanation for their actions. Like Scribe said if they are wrong they will be replaced.
I am more offended by the treatment of some of the ex-Fad folks than I am by terms or language.

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I am more offended by the treatment of some of the ex-Fad folks than I am by terms or language.

Please don't think by any means that this is a majority, or even a significant minority who condone this bad treatment of ex-Fad folks. I think without specifically looking back that a couple of hot heads made some remarks, and they of course were just speaking for themselves. :(

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Regards,
Bob P.

... The imagery of "mates...fishing" vs. "mixed company" ...

I have no intentions of entering this debate. it would be inappropriate of me to do so as a moderator. But I will explain the language of my previous post, one more time to clear this up.

That said, people seem to be going to great, tortuous and impractical lengths to find a way to become offended on this issue. I think I made my criteria on the issue of deletion of posts very clear, and I have defined the boundaries and thresholds I will use as well as the limits of language and cultural differences will allow.

Clearly some language MUST be used to discuss the concept of language. Just as the brain may not be smart enough to figure itself out, language may be a poor tool to use to describe language. Stuck with this dilemma, we must move to imagery instead. Hence the nature of my original post.

Now If your image of "mates" is restricted to Males only, well that is your restriction and your image not mine. Mates, can be people of opposite (or same) sex that are friends, they can be a man and woman in a relationship with one another such as a marriage. Or even a man and a man or a woman and a woman in relations ships, including marriage in some countries. So if the term "Mates" is limited in any way, it is a limitation imposed by the interpretation of the term by the reader.

I and many people I know do go fishing with men and women in the same group, but they are usually close friends where informality in many areas is the decorum of the activity. This would include the language used among the group. I chose the term "mates" very specifically, and deliberately. I am not from a country where that term sees wide use in conversation. In any case the mention of fishing was an example of a less formal gathering of individual into a group, that is not really the point of the message.

The same holds true for 'mixed company". Mixed company is ... well you know... MIXED! Mixed company can be 10 men of the same age from different countries. It can be 5 men and five women from the same place, it can be two children and five adults all male or mixed sex. The entire focus of the use of that term is to describe the fact that it is a MIXED grouping. How the mixture is defined is not important. what is important is that the fact of the mixture means that members of the set will likely see things different from one another. Therefore they will take things differently. In normal circles, people make allowance for this simple fact of life, by adjusting their behavior so as not to annoy or offend people in such a mixed audience.

What is important in all of this is the following.

I do not believe for one second that there is a person on this project who actually does not understand precisely what the criteria I have outlined for posting language means, in practical terms. I have been asked to provide Moderation services to these boards. I felt it was important to inform the community how I would make some of the more important decisions of doing that work. I have done that. I am open to feed back on the matter, and I am willing to explain what I have said, but here is the short of it.

I am not willing to spend a lot of time debating about this stuff. The Project teams wants the site moderated, and I will do that at their request until they decide I should no longer serve in that role, or I decide to quit, whichever comes first. And I will act just as I have described, and I will use the criteria as I have set it forth here to you. I will perform this function dispassionately, and without prejudice or malice. Some will on occasion be irritated and feel they have been wronged. On occasion you will make assumptions about things I have done and you will be wrong. I will apologize when I make mistakes and try to fix them.

I do plan on preparing a post that will more clearly explain the structure I am implementing on the boards, so people can see where we are and where we are going. Part of that plan is the New team thread in the cafe, the moderator contact thread also in the cafe, this thread for explanations of of moderator policy, the new look for the FAQ thread and may other features to help users find stuff, reach the people they need to contact, and have some fun while they are here. I am also putting in place some features to assist the Project team in overseeing and monitoring my activities. It is going to take a wile but these boards are improving

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Moderator9
ROSETTA@home FAQ
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It is going to take a wile but these boards are improving

Sorry you felt the need for such a long explanation, I feel that there are some high maintenance people while the vast majority of readers are much lower maintainance. So please do not get upset over the posts of a few while the vast majority support your efforts. :)

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Regards,
Bob P.

... The imagery of "mates...fishing" vs. "mixed company" ...

I have no intentions of entering this debate. it would be inappropriate of me to do so as a moderator. But I will explain the language of my previous post, one more time to clear this up.

....

Excuse me, but if I feel offended by somebody, I'll lash them a Fuzzy slap

or, in more severe cases, a

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[b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b]

thank you modpotion#9 for your efforts so far. maybe it would be prudent to hold back a little something for the future? in other words, don't detail everything, leave something to the imagination. ;)

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thank you modpotion#9 for your efforts so far. maybe it would be prudent to hold back a little something for the future? in other words, don't detail everything, leave something to the imagination. ;)

Quite right, I just want the process as open a possible. Most people understand and are comfortable as long as they know what is going on and why, and they are provided the opportunity to have their views heard and considered. That is why I opened this conversation. I read and consider every single comment made by every user concerning moderation of the lists.

It might help to understand and put things in perspective to know that of the over 8,000 posts on these lists, to my knowledge only about 20 have been removed for content issues. A number of others have been moved or reposted in an effort to produce some clarity and organize things but they are still here.

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Moderator9
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

It is going to take a wile but these boards are improving

Sorry you felt the need for such a long explanation, I feel that there are some high maintenance people while the vast majority of readers are much lower maintainance. So please do not get upset over the posts of a few while the vast majority support your efforts. :)

It is also worth saying that many of those whose posts are moderated will accept the process gracefully - and some have done so already

River~~