Posts by Jeff

1) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 96193)
Posted 7 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Yeah I agree with Grant here, the TJ max is 100C that is when it starts to throttle probably and running them at 90-100C will definitely kill my cpu much earlier.

However, your thoughts about running the CPU at 100% but using less CPUs is interesting, I did not know that the switching off and on would do damage? That is odd... And I tried it last night though, but my temps went back into the 80sC only running it at 30% of cpus but 100% usage. That's not good. The switching off and on actually might be good to keep the cpu cooler. So it seems either death by heat or death by switching... I don't know what is worse.

And yes, air cooling it seems not to be the right way, I just hesitate to install a water cooler, 1 cost and 2 leakage.
2) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 96090)
Posted 5 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
So I cannot edit the message above, so here is some new info.

Ok... so I get my industrial ppc noctua nf-a14 3000pwm fan today. They don't give you any cables. I had to take some from another fan, plug it into a sata port. Turn that thing on, and wow, yeah, it moves air, but.... it's really too noisy. really too noisy. BUT... Here is what I did to test it out. I hung it from the room of the case, fitting it diagonally. Pulling air from the front case fans and also the top of the case and angling it down into the cpu heat sink intake fan. I am currently running my system at 90% cpu usage and 90% of cpus. CPU temps stay in the mid 60's or low 70s. I occasoinally get that 80C spike but only when I try to run other programs and things at the same time. That is quite incredible.

If I reduce everything down to 50% probably I won't get an 80. But then again I have the AC on now too, but this fan rocks. But... I cannot keep it, it is way way way too loud. So I will send it back and I ordered a Noctua NF-A14 PWM SSO2 AAO FAN which will move air at about 140, instead of 268. The other Noctua fans were moving air at around 117. I do not think I am going to see that much more significant changes than the NF-A14 FLX. But it will have slightly higher air flow and I will try to rig the same angle, making sure that air is directed into the cpu intake fan like the industrial one is now. I think the cooler masker heatsink is either not thermal glued right or the cooler master just stinks for doing high end stuff. And I think it is the later, the fans are not strong enough, and the heatsink is not good enough. If it dies, I will replace it with a large noctua one, if I can get it in because the RAM sits way too close to the fan. I may have to change around some other configurations as well. The CPU needs direct airflow it seems in order to get that heat away from it ASAP.

If you have a spare room to do crunching I tell ya, the industrial fan is good, but too loud. My next PC I will throw out all the case fans and install better fans or use water cooling.
3) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 96085)
Posted 5 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Hi, thank you for that.

No, I am not using Noctua for my heatsink, I am using cooler master, forget which model but it has two fans, one push and one pull. There are another two fans (MSI TOREX) right above it that will pull hot air from the case and the rear exhaust fan that will help pull the hot air away from the case near the CPU also. I have just bought a Noctua industrial 3000rpm fan and send the other two back, I will rig this to hang from the roof of the case to intake mass amounts of cooler air and set the fan in the direction of the first CPU intake fan to blow massive amounts of fresh outside cooler air directly into the cpu heatsink. Not sure if that will interfere with the flow as the CPU intake fan is probably only 1800-2000rpm, but regardless there will be cooler air around the entire heatsink as that industrial fan is 140mm. My only concern is the noise it is going to make. We will see after installation. If I can stop a few other fans and just use that one it will be better.

As the system is new I feel a little regret that I did not buy better quality stuff at the beginning in order not to spend more now.

I plan to use this pc for at least five years, my last build was over 7 years. So I hope that the cpu can last longer. I am not overclocking, I need to under clock it, the voltage is also too high i think.
4) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 96015)
Posted 4 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Yeah I just checked closely on the website, I didn't realize they had a nice page with all the info. I bought the 3000rpm industrial one. 286cfm, if that doesn't suck enough air in, nothing will. Just hope it is not deafly. But If I can turn off a few other fans and use one of those, that will be better for noise also.
5) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 95978)
Posted 4 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
I have two Noctua fans. NF-A12x25 FLX 3pin 120mm
and
NF-A14 FLX 140mm

Are these ok? I feel the MSI Torex fan moves about double the amount of air. But it is a feeling. What is happening inside the case when I close everything up, I am not sure.
6) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 95974)
Posted 4 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Yes, it is dumbfounding. Last night, without AC at room temps getting between 28-30C it did not go over 80C. The highest spike was around 78C, that is with 30% CPU and 40% time.
The funny thing is that if I go to 70% then I get spikes to 83C-85C. I am wondering part of the issue may be that if I am using the PC at the same time as the crunching that opening some programs may cause it to spike also. But overnight that shouldn't happen. I think I have to try to change the thermal glue once, and see if that will fix the problem.

It seems Noctua products stink, I should send them back. I do not feel much airflow out of them even though they are so expensive. If only I could find a 5000-7000rpm fan where I am, that may help. haha.

By the way your photo below is for the wrong chipset. I have the i9-9900KF chip, not the K, they are vastly different, but I see the bottom you knew that.

I do not OC my system, it is fast enough. TBH I want to underclock it a big down to 4GHZ. But I am not familiar with the settings enough. I have plenty of programs for checking temps and voltages. voltages change constantly with the cpu being used. 1.378 seems to be a max. They run generally between 0.75 and 1.214. I have no idea what is normal actually. And right now at 50% cpu and 60% usage my temps run between 40 and 70C, it seems that the cpu will quickly cool off, but it gets hot as well.
7) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 95938)
Posted 3 May 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Hey guys, sorry I was out for awhile, I have been tinkering with the system.. Nothing is working for an overly long time....

What I have done..

Originally I had 1 rear exhaust, 1 top exhaust. 3 front intake, and a push/pull cpu cooler master heat sink.

I added another top exhaust both are MSI torex fans. I also put a fan on the bottom on top of the HDD case to move air from the front out the back to cool the case more.

I then added yet another fan on the top, near the front intake, litterally hanging from the top case to blow more air and intake more air to blow into the cooler master.

I also took off the rear cover behind the motherboard and put a 3m filter over it to keep out the dust and cat hair.

At first, I thought it was working, but then the temps starting going up again even at 30% cpu and 30% time with AC on, it was spiking at 80C or even sometimes at 85C, but these are short spikes, most of the time the temps range from 44C to 65C. Is it normal to have spikes into the 80s? Lasting split seconds? I am wondering if I am splitting hairs here and worrying too much.

My case is an FSP, quite big.
3x Torex MSI fans all 120mm
I also bought to try a Noctua fan, 120mm and 140mm, I feel they don't push much air, but I do find the stream is good, so if it is focused to the right point, it may help? I dunno..

I am running out of power also. Right now I have 2x fans on one four pin msi contoller, and I worry the MB may not be able to handle that. The other fan is plugged into a SATA or IDE, which I guess has plenty of power for multiple fans, no?

I am kinda at a loss. If the thermal glue is bad then sure, it may be the problem, i have been talking to some other poeple here, and they told me their notebook spikes at 90C sometimes, but still runs fine. They said 80 is fine so long as it is not long term.. I dunno...
8) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94994)
Posted 20 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Hey Grant, yes, I understand, but I still don't want a water cooled system. And as my system is only months old, I am not forking out more money for both a cooler and installation costs. This system already cost me around 2k. It's enough. I may add another top fan and maybe rig up an additional real exhaust fan on top of the psu somehow to help rid the system more quickly of the heat, but the CPU heat is more. MB temps seem fine.

As for applications that cause heat, perhaps, I have no idea, as I have not run nearly as many different applications as I used to for these. I stick with a few now.

As for the heatsink issue, anything is possible, but that requires me to take the computer to a store to have them look at it. Anything is possible. It could be something else too that I am over looking.

My MB is Asus rog strix z390-h gaming.

Strongboes,

Can you recommend some settings for me to do this? I don't want to go in blind doing it. I suspect I will need to reduce the voltages too which could cause some system instability. And I don't mind underclocking a little if it fixes the problem.
9) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94986)
Posted 20 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
My system is air cooled only. Three front intake. 1 top 1 back exhaust. and push/pull CPU cooler master fans. I won't use a water cooled system as people told me it is likely to leak. I have pets, I can't have that happen.

GPU has three fans on it. It's the long one.

I have contacted ASUS to tell them we need a firmware update or a new program that allows 100% user fan controller. Not sure how long it will take them to reply or if they will allow it.

I have noticed that Rosetta files run hotter, significantly hotter. I am now running only WCG files at 80-90% capacity and the temps are below 80. They run about 10C cooler. I wonder if Rosetta files are just not optimized correctly for user PCs. I don't know. Might be something to look at.

I still have to leave my AC on, and I don't want to do that, I want, like you said, even in an ambient environment at 35C that my system runs no hotter than 70. Something just isn't right.
10) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94881)
Posted 19 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
So basically my machine is operating normally.... the fan speed does change, you can hear it rev up, but when it revs it's like a wave. It's annoying. I worry all that surge in power continually over the day and months and years is going to take its toll on my hardware. I don't know, am I wrong here? It runs normally, quiet for like 5 seconds, temps go up, revs to high speed for 1 sec, then drops down again and temps fall. So cpu temps do get to 80+ for 1sec then drops to 50-60-70C range. I assume it is operating normally and there is not much else I can do.
11) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94870)
Posted 19 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
To all because too many to quote now. Thank you for your responses.

The way the Asus MB deals with temps now is different than before. Frankly I hate the new AI software it provides as there is no way to manually adjust fan speed. What happens is that as temperature goes up, the fans automatically will pulse in for a few seconds and then back off as the temps drop, and so on. What I notice is that if I use the AC in my office, and keep the AC at around 25/26 the the temps stay lower, but if I switch off the AC the machine gets really hot.

I am not overclocking my chip at all, I feel it is fast enough. But running CPU plus GPU together it creates a lot of heat.

The fans work fine, I can feel very hot air being pushed out of the system. I have tried to also create almost a foot behind my machine of empty space to allow for heat dissappation.

I just cleaned out my machine, a bit of dust in the heat sink. I then sealed off all intake holes with 3m filtrate to keep the dust and pet hair out of my system.

So where is what I noticed. Someone was right, my system is designed to be run at full, not at half, the temps go up if I run 25% 50% and even 75%, problem is that I am often actually using the system, so during times I am using it Bonic stops working. the only way to stop that from happening is by limiting how much work is being done while I am using it, but then the temps go up.

I had it running running at 95% CPUs and 95% time and the temps did not go over 80C, might have been a spike or to, but not so bad. By running it less than that, the temps would go up to 80-85C. Part of the problem is the way the fans are managed by ASUS. They only increase speeds when the temps go up, a balance between cooling and noise. But this creates other problems such as off/on fan speed and heat spikes.

Things get quieter and temps stay down when I run everything more. It is so odd. fans run at quiet speed and temps stay under 80C at 95%. Averages are around 75C, occasionally will get a spike. But again this is with AC at 25C.

Mainboard temp runs around 37-40C with AC on. GPU is running around 64C. GPU is Geforce RTX 2060.

I am not sure there is a glue problem or not. I selected all the components and had an assembler put it together. They are familiar with how much glue to use, etc. But perhaps there is still a problem, I dont know. Trying to attach photos here of Cpuid. but... not sure how to get the image here.[/img]
12) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94778)
Posted 18 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
I think I found the problem with the other project not registering with the online stats... but I don't know how to deal with it... In Boinc manager online I tried to link Collatz with the stand along pc manager. but... found username and password wrong. so I went back here, to try to change my email address, well, seems I already have an account, so.. how do i link the two together and just use the original one with all my new info? seems probably cannot, i dont know, can boinc management assist? or.. am i sol?
13) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94772)
Posted 18 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Instead of saying that your machine is not designed to run at quarter throttle I should have said that your machine is designed to run 100% without overheating. If it is overheating so badly at far less than 100% usage it is likely that there is a problem with the cooling system. The setup you describe sounds good but make sure it is not clogged up with dust for example.

As to the file size, this will not change with the preferred run time. Rosetta sends a work unit, you machine will then process the work unit for, approximately, the time you have set and then send all of the results you have managed to generate back to base. The estimated time remaining will initially stay at 7-8 hours but will correct itself over the next few days as the system settles down.

Boinc not getting your credits could be one of two things, either you have not given that project permission to export your credits to the account manager or, like climate prediction, that project might not generate credits on a daily basis - it could, for example, be weekly.


Hi, and thanks for the clarification. I thought maybe that is what you meant. Actually to run at 100% without getting to 90C for long periods of time I think is impossible. The 9900KF chip seems to run hotter. When nothing is running or just normal things, my system runs at 25-30C which is fantastic. I would rather it not get to around 90C though, I know the Intel chip can sustain a higher temp before it starts to throttle, but I would rather keep this system for 5-10 years as it's just new. Everything is clean. There is a small amount of dust at the bottom, but I do not clean my system every month. No build up of dust in the cpu fans or anywhere else. The case is huge too, which allows for plenty of air flow, no blockages between fan and cpu and exit. Because I am using the long Nvida GPU I needed the bigger case. Everything is quite clean, including psu filter.

I will see what happens for the run time issue in the next few days. Rosetta did not download any new cases until I closed Boinc manager and reopened it. Still estimating about 5-6 hours now. We will see what happens over the next few days.

The project in question is collatz, everything is being uploaded to the project, I can see all the results, but to Boinc, something is off, and it may be like you said, that it may not be reported right away. I will wait a few days. but if it ends up not being connected, I am not sure how to deal with that as every project was added the same to the manager...
14) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94767)
Posted 18 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
I've tried to set the resources appropriately but it seems they do not work right. WCG seems no place to set this either, I must be missing it. I've never had so many cores to work with and with a high performance machine, so now I can do like 12-16 projects on an 8 core chip, but it gets way too hot, over 90C, even with just 8 running it gets to 70-90, I have to cut back. But that is a minor issue.
Ahhh, so on Rosetta, I can cut back the file size they send me? I didn't know that, I was wondering what the heck that was for, now I know and now I will change it to 2-3 hours per file. Makes more sense.

Log into the WCG website and select :-
>settings>device manager>device profile
go right down to the bottom of the page and change the project weight to 150 then save (assuming that you’re doing WCG and Rosetta only and that Rosetta is still set to 100 then this will give you your 60/40 split).
The main thing then is to wait, ignore one project or the other taking over the machine and it will settle down to your selected split over the next 4 or 5 days.
As to the overheating, review your cooling arrangement, make sure all the fans are working and are not fighting each other. Make sure all of the filters are clean and free flowing. Make sure the heat sink fins are clear of dust.
Big machines like yours are not designed to be run at quarter throttle so I’m guessing that it’s not working properly.


Ok, yeah I figured it out, but right now it seems to be half working right without doing that. But yes, I see the place on WCG now. Thank you.
What do you mean big machines like mine are not designed to run at 25% throttle?
My machine has 3 intake fans in the front. One rear exhaust fan. One top exhaust fan. And a push/pull heat sink cooler master cpu fan. I think it is already quite good. If I turn on the AC in my office I can get the temps down in the low 80s. But these are max temps not sustained as I do not run my cpu 100%. The most I have done with AC on is 85% of cpu at 85% of the time. When I am not around I lower them both to between 40-50%. And when AC is off, I might go lower. Summer is coming and it gets rather hot. Inside office temp now is around 23C, in summer that will reach 30C without AC at which point I will have to stop using it or only use 10-25% load.


Ahhh, so on Rosetta, I can cut back the file size they send me? I didn't know that, I was wondering what the heck that was for, now I know and now I will change it to 2-3 hours per file. Makes more sense.
Or better still since running more than one project, set a small cache size & then let things settle down over a week or 4. Since you haven't run it for a while, it will take some time for the Estimated completion times to settle down, and for your Resource share settings to be honoured.
Other	
           Store at least 0.4 days of work
Store up to an additional 0.02 days of work


Ok I have messed with this, but even having set it on a 2 hour file, the size that is downloaded is still 6-8 hours per file. Perhaps it still needs more time to adjust.

Also... I have noticed that Boinc is not getting my credit. I am running a GPU project, and Boinc is not added the credits, been 48 hours. WCG and Rosetta seem already added.. So not sure what is going on with the GPU project....
15) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94689)
Posted 17 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
I've tried to set the resources appropriately but it seems they do not work right. WCG seems no place to set this either, I must be missing it. I've never had so many cores to work with and with a high performance machine, so now I can do like 12-16 projects on an 8 core chip, but it gets way too hot, over 90C, even with just 8 running it gets to 70-90, I have to cut back. But that is a minor issue.

Ahhh, so on Rosetta, I can cut back the file size they send me? I didn't know that, I was wondering what the heck that was for, now I know and now I will change it to 2-3 hours per file. Makes more sense.
16) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94682)
Posted 17 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
Maybe that was the problem as I had not run Rosetta on a computer for years. And just started getting back into folding.

I did notice that the dates for Rosetta projects were about 3-4 days earlier than WCG projects, but that means I will end up doing more Rosetta than WCG. which is not really what I want. But... Ok.. Like I said, originally it was 1 Rosetta and like 8 WCG, so I paused WCG and then the result is ALL Rosetta now and 0 WCG, so I had to no new tasks for rosetta right now to let it finish, as Rosetta projects are notoriously slow, the time they give you is off by about 2 hours, even with a new powerful machine, it's the same as it was 5 yeas ago. Disappointing actually, but.. so be it. Credit for Rosetta projects is also quite low. But matters not.

I will try not to suspend anything, I only put no new tasks for Rosetta for now, but that may influence it also? The funny thing is is that the switch between projects feature in Boinc manager doesn't work. Not one bit. I tested it, it doesn't do anything after the time I set.

I actually want more WCG projects than Rosetta. Like 60/40. But it is not working at all. I have canceled a lot of Rosetta projects as it downloaded way too much. I have it set for keeping about a 2-3 days of extra work just in case for each project, I think it is enough.
17) Message boards : Number crunching : 8 cores but only one Rosetta file? (Message 94654)
Posted 17 Apr 2020 by Jeff
Post:
I am wondering if this is a limitation in Rosetta or if there is another problem. I have an i9-9900KF Intel chip, it has 8 cores, and I can run quite few tasks. Right now it is running 8 tasks, 7 from WCG and 1 from Rosetta. My question is, why is Rosetta only get one task? My resources are set to 100%, 28.57 for three projects and 14.29% for a fourth project that is on pause.. why is WCG getting more resource share? Is that because I downloaded the manager from WCG instead of Boinc? I think it should all be the same. Or is this a Rosetta limitation, they only one a computer to work on one file at a time?

EDIT: So I suspended WCG and Rosetta immediately connected and downloaded more files, however, now, Rosetta is taking over WCG and WCG projects are not running. Why is the system not balancing? I would like to run half of each, but the system seems to think that isn't the way it will work. Before, years ago, I remember I was able to allocate a percentage to each project, and it seems it is allocated, but not being followed. Help!






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