Posts by ejuel

1) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62906)
Posted 12 Aug 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
So... if credits are not important for some of you... what alternative you have to measure the computational power working for R@H (or any other BOINC proyect)?.


The only importance of credit for me is:

1)I can be sure my machines are truly giving RAH results...if my RAC or credit is 0, I know something is wrong. :)

2)Within this project, sure, it is nice to have bragging rights...but really, to me, the bragging rights is more "hey, I have more computers working and/or dedicated to the purpose of this project than you."...which in turn maybe promotes people to try and "beat" me. In the end, the project wins because people become competitive...building teams, dedicating more computer time, dedicating more computers, etc.

-Eric
2) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62905)
Posted 12 Aug 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Competition is not just a human thing, we do it to compare ourselves to others. We try to find out where we are in the whole scheme of things that way. You are starting to get into the mental health aspects of humans here and this could lead to a whole huge discussion about the human brain and its inner workings. Suffice it to say that my computers are better than your computers, so by extension I am better than you, is the thinking. Is this right, not in my opinion, but it is just my opinion!


Oh I get it and understand it all...that's not my point.

My point is that jumping from 1 project to another so you can get an extra X points is just dumb...in my opinion.

The computer doesn't get any faster or better...you just get more points. Big deal. My computer can still run Ms. Pacman and I can get 200,000 points in a game...or I can play Asteroids and get 300,000 points in a game. My computer didn't get any better/faster...all I did was, in reality, alter/skew/cheat the system which somehow makes ME BELIEVE it is better.
3) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62897)
Posted 12 Aug 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I'm not sure why people care about the credits at all...I mean, it's not like I can cash them in for an Amazon gift card or anything.

Sure, it's nice to be in the top 5% or whatever of your project for bragging rights...but to jump from project to project to get some kind of "credit" gain just doesn't make any sense to me...there is absolutely no value.

If people want to "belong" to a particular project just because it gives 3% more "credit" than another project for your identical client computer, then how does that benefit the person? Sounds pretty stupid if you ask me. Sheez...I mean I could invent a Credit Project that simply runs your CPU at 100% and counts clock cycles and gives you 5x the "credit" that any other BOINC project gives. Big whoop. So you get 6,000,000,000,000 points a day with my project...and????

People certainly have every right to belong to any BOINC project they want...but you would think there would be a little pride out there that you belong to a project because you believe it's a worthy cause for humanity.

-Eric
4) Message boards : Rosetta@home Science : DISCUSSION of Rosetta@home Journal (4) (Message 62864)
Posted 10 Aug 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Hi David...can you please give us an update? See this post:


http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=4061&nowrap=true#62854



-Eric
5) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62854)
Posted 9 Aug 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I'm sorry, I didn't read through this thread earlier, I wish I had...


I apologize again, and we will collectively put together a full report by mid next week.



David...where is this report? Please provide the direct URL. It has been 2+ full weeks since your promise of a report.

-Eric
6) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62417)
Posted 24 Jul 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I'm sorry, I didn't read through this thread earlier, I wish I had.

I am fully aware that we have fallen behind on providing feedback on the project. As I've said elsewhere, it is because we are putting all of our efforts into the research, but this is not an excuse. Since you are making the work possible, we owe it to you to give clear explanations of what we are working on.

I apologize again, and we will collectively put together a full report by mid next week.



Thank you, David. I appreciate you taking the time to read the comments.

One bit of advice I would like to add is that many of us (me) are not biology majors or understand all the wonderful aspects of chemicals and proteins,etc. I think it is worthwhile to create a News area that is in laymens terms...stuff that the average person on the street can read and understand. If you must put in some tidbits about proteins and chemicals and such, please explain in laymens terms, what the end result is to humans.

An example update I would like to see would read like this (greatly shortened for the point of this thread):

"For the last 6 months we have been able to process 17 trillion chemical reactions in _______ which has helped scientists come closer to solving Cancer. Also, it has allowed doctors to rule out 4 possible causes of Cancer. The RAH research has also led to significant steps in preventing Malaria because ________. Boston Childrens Hospital has improved their diagnosis of _______ due to RAH's ________. Dr. Smith of Cook County Medical offers this praise of RAH..."


Thanks again.

-Eric
7) Message boards : Rosetta@home Science : DISCUSSION of Rosetta@home Journal (4) (Message 62389)
Posted 23 Jul 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Thank you for the suggestions! We will work on updating and reporting this week. Everybody here is so focused on research we do need reminders occasionally when we have fallen behind on reporting back to you all the exciting things that are happening!


Hi David,

Please see the middle of this thread where many of us have asked for over a year for better communication from RAH...

http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=4061&nowrap=true#54016

I would like to hear a reply from you by Tuesday, the 28th or I am pulling all my machines off this project.

Yes, I am that frustrated with the lack of respsonse and professionalism from this project.

-Eric
8) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62380)
Posted 23 Jul 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I'm talking about what the PROJECT has accomplished...not how many computers are attached to the project.

There need to be updates telling us what cures they have found, what illnesses they are closing in on solving, etc. Not "well, it's been a great year...we crunched 79 trillion folds".

I think a LOT of people have stopped contributing to this project...the poor #s indicate it. 84 new people a day? Wow...that's a showstopper. The project has been runnig for years now and it only has 250,000 people signed up? Honestly, that's pathetic. How many of the 250,000 are actively crunching units? 30,000? Maybe?

I have a lot of respect for this project...but I have a LOT MORE EXPECTATION that this project will GIVE BACK to the people it depends on. I'm getting no feedback from RAH...nothing. Zilch. Zip. I feel used.

I'm gonna give RAH a few days to reply to this thread...then I'm taking my cpus somewhere else...it's EXTREMELY sad that I am threatening to leave a project with such admirable goals. But I'm not going to be used and ignored.

-Eric
9) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 62376)
Posted 22 Jul 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Hello???? RAH???? Anyone there from the project? Dr. Baker?

Nobody, after 1 full year, can reply to this sub-topic about LACK OF INFORMATION ON THE WEBSITE????


Please...if not, I'm yanking all my machines and saving my electricity. RAH claims all this cpu power crunching is for a great cause...YET THERE'S NOT A SINGLE SENTENCE on the website about what (in laymens terms) RAH has accomplished.

RAH just keeps asking for monetary donations and cpu time...yet refuses to respond to simple AND IMPORTANT requests like this.

-Eric
10) Message boards : Number crunching : Anyone using Dell Mini9 or Atom CPU? (Message 61459)
Posted 30 May 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I just got a Dell Mini9 netbook...Atom processor with 1gig ram and Windows XP.

Anyone have any stats on what I should expect if I run BOINC on it 24x7? Any computers that you have that I can look at...RAC stats?

I see the netbook industry as crushing the traditional laptop industry by end of 2010 if not sooner (yes there will always be people who want a high powered laptop but for most of the public, they just want a nice thin laptop to check email, surf, upload some photos).

Anyway, any stats or help would be greatly appreciated!

-Eric
11) Message boards : Number crunching : Teraflops...we averaging over 100 now? (Message 61284)
Posted 20 May 2009 by Profile ejuel
Post:
I've been wondering but cannot check every day...are we averaging over 100 TF each day?

This morning at 7:45am EST the main website is showing 124 TF...but other days I've checked (likely later in the day) we're at about 80TF.

So it's a 2 part question:

1)When is the Teraflop estimate statistic on the main webpage updated? Hourly? Every day at exactly 1:03pm EST?

2)I haven't seen any congratulatory notices on the home page or even via email stating this project, on average, it breaking the 100 TF barrier every day. Are we? Or are there just 1-2 days a week that we are over 100 but the other 5-6 days we are hovering at 80TF?


I just think it would be nice to 1)get some more announcements about statistics and 2)get some better descriptions about the stats on the homepage...especially the TF estimate.

-Eric
12) Message boards : Number crunching : GPU crunchers - boinc 6.4.5 has been released (Message 58078)
Posted 21 Dec 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:


there was another thread sometime back that said gpu's are good for speed but not for accuracy. RAH needs accuracy as well as speed. that comes from this post. also penguin has a point about the different architectures and styles of gpu's. i would "guess" that also the fact that the team keeps updating the program and that is a challenge enough for cpu's. taking on the challenge of writing for gpu's would overwhelm them.
this is a university run program and they get private funding, more for research results rather than programing. at least that how i read all the different stories on here.


I didn't know that GPU stuff was, in my book, "lossy". Math is math to me. A+B should equal C no matter what it is "computed" on. :)

But...hey, as long as the project runs correctly on CPUs, I'll keep running it on my quad-core systems.

On a side note, Apple is supposed to be refreshing their Mac Mini in early 2009...not that I am a Mac fan but if the price is right AND they are quad-core chips, boy oh boy would that be sweet to set up a Mini farm.
13) Message boards : Number crunching : GPU crunchers - boinc 6.4.5 has been released (Message 58075)
Posted 21 Dec 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
@Paul: Wonderful! Trying to build my i7 system as quickly as possible, just need a mobo. Question for you: If I get a mobo with 3 or 4 gpu slots, with Boinc can I then run 8 threads of "regular" Boinc wu's, and 3 or 4 gpu wu's, or am I limited to 8 "regular" and only 1 gpu?

@ejuel: Don't believe anytime in the near future. I've been a big proponent of porting Rosie to the "standardized" PS3, and given the code size and frequent changes, appears not very feasible. I "assume" that since gpu's are "non-standardized" (different mfgr's, gpu architecture, core speeds, amount of ram, etc), the same issues would also exist.



Thanks for the fast reply.

With all due respect to everyone here, my response would be, "why can other projects port/run on GPU and RAH seemingly cannot?"

Maybe other projects have more funds/people/time to keep re-porting/re-writing code every iteration...I dunno. It would be interesting to hear, at least in a somewhat Project Management response from someone at RAH, why other project run under GPU.

Again, I mean no disrespect...I'm just very curious about this GPU issue/topic/problem/boundary/limitation. RAH's answer to my (more likely "our") question could also push donors to make a specific donation or allow this community to specifically address the problem. I believe I speak for a high percentage of people on this project when I say "we're here to help!"

:)
14) Message boards : Number crunching : GPU crunchers - boinc 6.4.5 has been released (Message 58072)
Posted 20 Dec 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
"Note: if your computer is equipped with an NVIDIA Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster."



Thanks for the update. But what does this mean for RAH? Will RAH be upgraded to take advantage of this new GPU crunching feature? If yes, can we have an ETA?

Thanks!

-Eric
15) Message boards : Number crunching : Force Multi-core to process 1 WU? (Message 58071)
Posted 20 Dec 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Hi. I have a duo-core machine and it crunches 2 WUs at a time just fine.

What I'd like to do is have both cores process only 1 WU at a time...process the same WU in fact. Why would I want to do this?...so the graphics will run/dance around faster. I would only do it for a few days while show it to some friends (I typically run the Advanced side of BOINC). This request is really just for a coolness factor.

Theoretically there is no difference in 2 cores processing 1 or 2 WUs at a time...simply the speed at which *each* WU will be fully processed.

Is there any way to do this? I have 3gigs of RAM, a stripped down XP Pro box, and an Intel duo-core chip and BOINC 6.2.19.

Thanks!

-Eric
16) Message boards : Number crunching : Discussion on increasing the default run time (Message 57021)
Posted 17 Nov 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
ejuel, DK is talking about the Rosetta specific preference for how long each task runs on your client machine. If you express no preference, the default is for tasks to run for 3 hours presently. But the drop down list lets you chose from a preference of 1 hour, through 24 hours for each task.


Thanks...but a few follow-up questions:

1)Why are all my not-processed-yet WUs now predicting 9hours 41mins to process rather than 6 hours? 6 vs 9:41 is a big difference.

2)What will happen to the 15+ WUs I have that are not completed yet, but are due within 48 hours? Mathematically there is no way I can crunch through 15+ WUs in 48 hours if each WU will take 9:41 to finish.

3)I assume RAC will not change...since RAC is not counting the quantity of WUs but rather the work/time ratio done on those WUs.

Any other pitfalls we should consider?

-Eric
17) Message boards : Number crunching : Discussion on increasing the default run time (Message 57016)
Posted 17 Nov 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
We are planning to increase the default run time from 3 hours to 6 hours and the minimum from 1 to 3 hours to reduce the load on our servers.



Can you please explain this in lamens' terms? Are you stating that you are making changes on the server or on our clients? If on our clients, please explain what you mean. For example, are you making the Work Units twice as big/complex which means my machine will take twice as long to crunch each WU? If you are talking about the server are you stating that our client must wait at least 6 hours before connecting again for reporting or new WUs?

Again, your quote is very open ended and can mean a number of things.

Thanks.

-Eric
18) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 54585)
Posted 20 Jul 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
Hello? RAH? Are you there?

Sheeeez.
19) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 54163)
Posted 3 Jul 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
so, like, um, can ANYONE from the RAH team comment on my (and Greg_be's) comments about the lack of information/emails/updates?

I feel like this topic is a broken record....never a reply from RAH. Just keep on ignoring our requests.

-Eric
20) Message boards : Number crunching : How many people are crunching Rosetta? (Message 54015)
Posted 26 Jun 2008 by Profile ejuel
Post:
They use the data dumps from the projects to determine the numbers ... there is of course some fluctuation as some of us are intermittent in doing work ..., but the order of magnitude is reasonable ...

For me, the thing to take away from that number is that 75% of the people that tried Rosetta, left ...

to me the most depressing aspect of this is that *I* think that the project could improve on those numbers ... if only ... and there is a song about that I thing ...


This topic may be on another thread but this fact kills me...that a VERY HIGH percentage of BOINC participants exit the project after a short amount of time. There are countless reasons but I would suggest these are the top few:

1)We're not all computer geniuses or biology majors. The BOINC websites (like RAH) are horrific to give the AVERAGE HUMAN an update on what is going on. I don't want or need all the mumbo jumbo nor do I understand it. Tell me basics like have we created any cures? Have we come much much closer to a cure for something? Etc.

2)Updates on the RAH homepage are few and far between. I'm not talking about technology updates like server outages or new product updates, I'm talking about WHAT THE PROJECT HAS ACCOMPLISHED. Email updates 3-4 times a year would be awesome and would keep people involved. This could be another bullet point. If I don't feel appreciated, I am going to leave and donate my time/money/cpu elsewhere to people who can spend a few hours a year emailing me.

3)BOINC is still not a very simple program for non-computer people to administer and run. I consider myself a computer guru yet BOINC every now and then gets caught in my various Firewall applications or gets cranky if the net connection is down and sometimes (very rarely) just seems to require a reboot to get it back and running....it will be running great for months and then bam! The firewall traps it. I of course know how to fix this but MOST PEOPLE would have no clue if they should choose Yes or No to allow BOINC to talk to the servers any longer. Furthermore, firewall/antivirus software is cryptic enough to promote the user to always choose the "get rid of it" option. BOINC does have it's Advanced view and Simple View...but I think the Simple view could be even better...the install.

3a)Installation and support...a complete joke for the non-computer savvy. No screenshot-based Install Guide on the website, installation is cryptic about what the user needs to do after choosing a dir path, account name, and pw. Connect to a project? Huh? What? Server cannot communicate right now? (I get that a lot with fresh installs)...now what do I do? Support is Forum-based only, which of course requires login credentials and lack of email....so all the effort is on the VOLUNTEER to chase down the problem and try to get it working. Bad methodology if you ask me.


4)For the first day or 2 of installing BOINC (because it depends on how fast your cpu is, how often BOINC is running, and your net connection availability), it is constantly doing things which need human intervention. Sure, to you and me it's a quick few questions/annoyances but for mom and dad out there, they have no idea what the heck is happening.


I would be willing to bet that 50% of the users that never come back have somehow INVOLUNTARILY configured their machine to never connect again...whether that's the firewall, or Vista and its stupid Defender, or BOINC settings.

I would gather that the remainder of the 50% quitters left because of frustration...for me, my frustration is that I am dedicating lots of computer power to a project yet the project can't spend the time to make the website USER FRIENDLY for the NON-TECHNICAL folk. This is a VERY COMMON problem among Educational Institutions across the globe...their websites are difficult to read and difficult to get simple answers to simple questions. Corporate websites are much better because they have to in order to survive.

As I have advocated for years, distributed computing projects need to have REAL project management....which typically implies that it is headed by someone NOT from the educational world. You can't just focus 99% of your time/resources on solving the problem...especially if you are getting all your "work" done for you for free by volunteers.


-Eric


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