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Sid Celery

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Message 98359 - Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:39:23 UTC - in response to Message 98307.  
Last modified: 27 Jul 2020, 23:52:54 UTC

That it will take me 3 months - after wasting months finding the correct resource share - is not user friendly

Did you mean to write months?
Because you were referring to a message that talked about running 3 of 4 cores on one project while running 1 of 4 on another, which implies to me throughout each day, not months.
I have no idea where "months" came from, nor their relevance. Resource shares certainly don't take months to resolve themselves.
The only timescales I'd think were relevant were cache sizes in days and deadlines.

I'm not great with the finer details of Boinc, but when I set my priorities between 2 projects (and I don't know how it works with more projects and with highly divergent deadlines tbf) the tasks that come down seem to reflect them.

Edit2: It also seems to be a highly user-unfriendly suggestion
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 98364 - Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 7:36:09 UTC - in response to Message 98359.  

I have no idea where "months" came from, nor their relevance. Resource shares certainly don't take months to resolve themselves.
It can and does take months to settle down- if you have a large cache, if you have a low core count/clock speed/IPC system, if you are attached to several projects (some people to as many as a dozen active projects) it can take over 3 months for things to settle down.
If you have no cache, a high core count/clock speed/IPC system, and are attached to just a couple of projects then the Resource share can settle down in a matter of days.
Grant
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Profile yoerik
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Message 98365 - Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 7:54:39 UTC - in response to Message 98359.  

That it will take me 3 months - after wasting months finding the correct resource share - is not user friendly

Did you mean to write months?
Because you were referring to a message that talked about running 3 of 4 cores on one project while running 1 of 4 on another, which implies to me throughout each day, not months.
I have no idea where "months" came from, nor their relevance. Resource shares certainly don't take months to resolve themselves.
The only timescales I'd think were relevant were cache sizes in days and deadlines.

I'm not great with the finer details of Boinc, but when I set my priorities between 2 projects (and I don't know how it works with more projects and with highly divergent deadlines tbf) the tasks that come down seem to reflect them.

Edit2: It also seems to be a highly user-unfriendly suggestion


Grant said:
And adjusting the Resource share also changes things, as does suspending/ restarting of tasks or projects, so it has to re-work things, yet again.
Having a low powered, low core count system with a (relatively) large cache setting, and running multiple projects means it will take months for things to settle down from the time you make your last change to the settings, and no further suspending/ restarting of tasks or projects. As soon as you change something, then it has to re-work things, yet again.

referring to the time it would take the client to balance out to where I want it to be.
I responded later on that it isn't user friendly to play around with the resource share for months until you find the magic number that gives you the result you want.
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Message 98376 - Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 21:45:24 UTC - in response to Message 98364.  

Grant (SSSF) said:
It can and does take months to settle down- if you have a large cache, if you have a low core count/clock speed/IPC system, if you are attached to several projects (some people to as many as a dozen active projects) it can take over 3 months for things to settle down.
If you have no cache, a high core count/clock speed/IPC system, and are attached to just a couple of projects then the Resource share can settle down in a matter of days.


And THAT'S a major problem with using Resource Share for ANYTHING!!! NOTHING is more unfriendly to newbies than something taking MONTHS to do what they want it to do!!! This is the era of instant everything "months" is NOT an option to get new people to hang around!!

Have you tried the Folding@Home software lately? If not you need too as it just fricking WORKS... I connected with a pc that did not have a gpu that can crunch and it started folding on the cpu! I loaded it on aother pc with a gpu that can crunch and it asked me if I wanted to use the cpu, gpu or both and then started crunching!!! I also had the option to create an account or use the generic one that did not keep any stats on me.

The Team GPUUG has written something to help work around some of Boinc's problems and I think Jord should talk to them too as he goes down this path as it could be very helpful. I am NOT a member of their group so do NOT have any specifics but know they love it!!!! A user at MilkyWay has also written an alternate Boinc Client to get around the 10 minute Server side time-out for gpu tasks, that the Admins have no clue where to change!, I think Jord should talk to him too so these Server side problems can be avoided in any new versions.
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 98380 - Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 9:12:36 UTC - in response to Message 98376.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2020, 9:13:54 UTC

And THAT'S a major problem with using Resource Share for ANYTHING!!! NOTHING is more unfriendly to newbies than something taking MONTHS to do what they want it to do!!! This is the era of instant everything "months" is NOT an option to get new people to hang around!!
And that situation only arises when people insist on trying to get their systems to do the the impossible by fiddling with the default settings without the slightest idea of what it is they are actually doing.
As long as they don't join up to half a dozen or more projects, just joining up to even a few projects and running with the default settings things will settle down in a matter of weeks.


Have you tried the Folding@Home software lately? If not you need too as it just fricking WORKS
As does BOINC if you run just one (well established) project.
Install BOINC, attach to project. Done.


A user at MilkyWay has also written an alternate Boinc Client to get around the 10 minute Server side time-out for gpu tasks,
Which is a problem for the project, as that timeout is a project Setting in order to help their severs cope with the load.


I think Jord should talk to him too so these Server side problems can be avoided in any new versions.
You do realise this thread is from 3 years ago?
Grant
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mikey
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Message 98384 - Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 19:47:27 UTC - in response to Message 98380.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2020, 19:49:28 UTC

[quote]And THAT'S a major problem with using Resource Share for ANYTHING!!! NOTHING is more unfriendly to newbies than something taking MONTHS to do what they want it to do!!! This is the era of instant everything "months" is NOT an option to get new people to hang around!!
And that situation only arises when people insist on trying to get their systems to do the the impossible by fiddling with the default settings without the slightest idea of what it is they are actually doing.
As long as they don't join up to half a dozen or more projects, just joining up to even a few projects and running with the default settings things will settle down in a matter of weeks.


Have you tried the Folding@Home software lately? If not you need too as it just fricking WORKS
As does BOINC if you run just one (well established) project.
Install BOINC, attach to project. Done.


That's a problem for MOST newbies though, they don't need hand holding they need clearer easier to use settings.


A user at MilkyWay has also written an alternate Boinc Client to get around the 10 minute Server side time-out for gpu tasks,
Which is a problem for the project, as that timeout is a project Setting in order to help their severs cope with the load.


True but hardly the point, few Projects have the money to employ a Boinc Specialist for their Project so again the software is too complicated to setup and run!! In this case it's the Server side settings not the Client side that most people see.


I think Jord should talk to him too so these Server side problems can be avoided in any new versions.
You do realise this thread is from 3 years ago?


And yet you are aslo posting in here and responding to people responding to him!!
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 98385 - Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 20:46:24 UTC - in response to Message 98384.  

That's a problem for MOST newbies though, they don't need hand holding they need clearer easier to use settings.
Use the Help, go from there. Look at what is on their Account page for that project & if unsure, ask in the project's forums.
If that's too hard, then anything other than turning something on or off will be too hard for them.

The fact is BOINC is simple to use- you install the software, attach to a project & that is all that is required to get it to work. You can't make it any simpler than that.
if you want to do more than that, you can. But like anything- the more you want to do with it, the more you need to understand what it is you are trying to do. And like anything, the more you configure or tweak something, the more complicated it becomes.
And there is not much point in devoting significant time & effort to simplify something that less than 0.1% of the user base has an issue with/will make use of.


True but hardly the point,
It is exactly the point.

few Projects have the money to employ a Boinc Specialist for their Project so again the software is too complicated to setup and run!!
There is no need for a BOINC specialist as you put it.
It has nothing to do with setting things up to get it to run. It's just people not liking what the project is doing, and then going out of their way to work around what the Project is trying to accomplish.


You do realise this thread is from 3 years ago?
And yet you are also posting in here and responding to people responding to him!!
I am responding to them. You responded specifically to a post that was made 3 years ago, not to ones made in the last day or so. Just a slight difference.
Grant
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mikey
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Message 98386 - Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 22:05:24 UTC - in response to Message 98385.  



few Projects have the money to employ a Boinc Specialist for their Project so again the software is too complicated to setup and run!!


There is no need for a BOINC specialist as you put it. It has nothing to do with setting things up to get it to run. It's just people not liking what the project is doing, and then going out of their way to work around what the Project is trying to accomplish.


And you just proved you don't remember what I posted...to reresh I said 'the Project can't figure out how to change the setting'.
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 98388 - Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 9:59:59 UTC - in response to Message 98386.  

And you just proved you don't remember what I posted...to reresh I said 'the Project can't figure out how to change the setting'.
I read it, i just didn't realise what you meant.
It sounded like the Project wasn't able to overcome the custom BOINC Manager behaviour, not that the Project couldn't figure out what they changed previously to cause such a delay (i'm pretty sure the default is 5 minutes).

I suspect an enquiry to the BOINC forums would result in them being pointed in the right direction.
Grant
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Sid Celery

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Message 98423 - Posted: 5 Aug 2020, 0:37:17 UTC - in response to Message 98365.  

Referring to the time it would take the client to balance out to where I want it to be.
I responded later on that it isn't user friendly to play around with the resource share for months until you find the magic number that gives you the result you want.

As is often the case, the best answer is in the first line of my original reply: "Stop wanting it".

I don't know who the right person would be to respond to this request at Boinc, but if the right one is found, and a request made to implement the suggestion, the best answer would be "No"
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Message 105334 - Posted: 6 Mar 2022, 3:05:27 UTC

Greetings!
My wishlist:
- A requirement for all projects to clearly list their system requirements
- Projects should clearly state what BOINC parameters their VBOX applications honor. eg:
- does project control I/O of BOINC settings?
- Does project continue to allocate memory on the fly? ( This is OK - JUST state it.)
- How does VBOX allocate processor utilization.
- Does project code spin on a resource lock instead of releasing control to other projects for a period.
- Description of finite state machines used within code for balancing work and waiting.
- More scientific description of what the code produces - what is next step?
( e.g. what is the difference in projects modelling covid-19 shapes.

I miss World Community Grid - where Scripps Labs went to generate and test modeled simulations.)
- Transparency - A pointer to the description of the BOINC API. and project code.
- Debug examples


I would like to volunteer to test code. I have done this before - I prefer white box testing where code can be examined for error-handling.

Thanks,
Jay
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Profile Grant (SSSF)

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Message 105335 - Posted: 6 Mar 2022, 3:19:28 UTC
Last modified: 6 Mar 2022, 3:19:59 UTC

You would be better off posting to BOINC itself, not a 5 year old thread at Rosetta about BOINC.
Grant
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Message boards : Number crunching : For the betterment of BOINC



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