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Advance copies of the soon-to-be-released executable

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Rhiju
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Message 32602 - Posted 13 Dec 2006 21:48:12 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 5:23:27 UTC

When we release an new executable, it is currently automatically downloaded by your BOINC software to your client.

This results in a lot of network traffic though. We have received some great suggestions for how to improve the situation in this thread, inluding compression. For now, some users with lots of computers have suggested that we make the executable available in advance, so that you can download them once (if you wish) and copy them into the rosetta@home project directories for all your computers, and thus save bandwidth.

So here's a little experiment. If you want to try this pre-download, rosetta_5.43 applications are available here in gzipped format:

http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/download/next_release/

Let us know if this helps! Note again that is totally optional, and if you don't do anything, you'll still get the application automatically.


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Message 32615 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 3:18:55 UTC

Wow MUCH smaller! 3.5MB vs 9MB

So... the steps would be??? I'm just not sure what to do with a GZipped file. Do I have to unzip it? Or does BOINC know what to do with it? And then I drop it in to the /Program Files/Boinc/Projects/boinc.bakerlab.org_rosetta Windows subdirectory, and when I request new work, and it happens to be a WU for the new release, it will see I've already got it, and know it doesn't need to download the new release (which is normally about 9MB these days).

Also, wanted to point out that I think the BEST place to post a message with advanced notice about a new version would be the version release log. Folks that are interested in it are already subscribed to the thread and will get an EMail notification. They might not check the homepage or the message boards in time to be proactive, but are more likely to check EMail more frequently.

For anyone that are unaware, it is not compressed (yet), but after a new version is released on Rosetta, the executables can always be downloaded from here and then copied to multiple PCs as needed.

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Message 32617 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 4:46:49 UTC

Unzip to the directory you mentioned, and BOINC will not download it again.
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Message 32619 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 5:07:24 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 5:07:38 UTC

Ok, so I installed from my Windows XP recovery CD recently... I must need to download a utility that knows what a .gz file is?
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Rhiju
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Message 32620 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 5:23:04 UTC - in response to Message ID 32619.
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 5:23:16 UTC

Hi Feet1st, I'm not a Windows expert, but most compression utilities for mac can decompress this format, so I'd bet the windows utilities would be even better! Download your favorite one. [Sorry, we thought gzip (.gz files) was pretty universal; apparently only for unix and mac, though.]

Ok, so I installed from my Windows XP recovery CD recently... I must need to download a utility that knows what a .gz file is?


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Message 32621 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 5:26:04 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 6:06:21 UTC

Feet1st, for Windows Zipgenius is free and an indispensable tool, it will uncompress/compress in just about everything.

Rhiju, I'm glad to see that you have put this on the front page, and had the foresight to place them in their own directory, as it takes me 28.593seconds (according to firefox) to load the http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/download/ page.

Edit: I downloaded the Windows file and used Zipgenius to uncompress it, I'm on dial-up so anything that you can do to make the downloads smaller is very good for me

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Message 32623 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 5:37:18 UTC

Well, the Windows equivelant would be a .zip file. And I probably can't support those at the moment either. I guess the native support in XP is called a "compressed folder".
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Message 32628 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 8:42:16 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 8:44:24 UTC

Hi, Rhiju, I'm very glad that your realize some of our suggestions so operatly. Thank you! Pleased to see that Project developers with us :) And I'm shure that this steps on the way of project optimization won't be last!
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Message 32632 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 10:41:50 UTC

I just wanted to remind people about Boinc's anonymous platform setting.

If the app_info.xml file is present it will stop boinc from automatically downloading a project client.

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Message 32635 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 11:59:07 UTC - in response to Message ID 32632.
Last modified: 14 Dec 2006 12:01:39 UTC

hope yall dont mind me chiming in.. in windows xp home the "compressd folder" is indeed a zip file. xp home and pro both have native support for zip files. ive also used 7zip to handle other formats (free) www.7-zip.org wich supports

upported formats:


    * Packing / unpacking: 7z, ZIP, GZIP, BZIP2 and TAR
    * Unpacking only: RAR, CAB, ISO, ARJ, LZH, CHM, Z, CPIO, RPM, DEB and NSIS


edit: add's proper bbcode tags.
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Message 32651 - Posted 14 Dec 2006 20:00:34 UTC - in response to Message ID 32635.

"Pain dosen't hurt, when it's all you have ever felt".

Yes. That particular genetic problem was discussed yesterday on NPR.

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Message 32702 - Posted 15 Dec 2006 15:37:51 UTC - in response to Message ID 32632.

I just wanted to remind people about Boinc's anonymous platform setting.

If the app_info.xml file is present it will stop boinc from automatically downloading a project client.


I think that is a really bad idea, as the new rosetta files are (mosly) better and help the research go further.
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Message 32734 - Posted 16 Dec 2006 8:02:01 UTC - in response to Message ID 32702.

I just wanted to remind people about Boinc's anonymous platform setting.

If the app_info.xml file is present it will stop boinc from automatically downloading a project client.


I think that is a really bad idea, as the new rosetta files are (mosly) better and help the research go further.


Wouldn't it also stop the crunching ? If it didn't it would mess up the results given back (I know 64bit boinc client users use it though)
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Andrew

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Message 32786 - Posted 17 Dec 2006 4:01:04 UTC - in response to Message ID 32734.
Last modified: 17 Dec 2006 4:02:46 UTC

I think that is a really bad idea, as the new rosetta files are (mosly) better and help the research go further.

I mentioned it because some people were complaining about how the boinc client automatically updates the Rosetta client.

If people with a lot of machines wish only to download the client once, and then distribute the new Rosetta client to their farm, using the anonymous platform would work. They could download the new binary once and then update the xml file and distribute the binary and xml together to update their farm.

However, 'normal' crunchers shouldn’t use it.

Wouldn't it also stop the crunching ?

No, it would stop the boinc client updating the Rosetta client.

If it didn't it would mess up the results given back

That would totally depend on the differences between the Rosetta client versions.

(I know 64bit boinc client users use it though)

People use this method when they create/use custom project clients (like the optimized seti clients) or when their platform isn’t directly supported by the project... etc.

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Message 32799 - Posted 17 Dec 2006 8:49:24 UTC - in response to Message ID 32786.

If it didn't it would mess up the results given back

That would totally depend on the differences between the Rosetta client versions.

So it is a bad idea to use it then! Since we are testing out the actual clients abilities and refinements would/could scew the results.
That would be the older results if they pick them via client version, or the newer results if they view them by target/work groups

(I know 64bit boinc client users use it though)

People use this method when they create/use custom project clients (like the optimized seti clients) or when their platform isn’t directly supported by the project... etc.
[/quote]

We don't have modified clients here just the vanilla r@h ones, so that's a bit irrelevant ;)
We'll unless someone like Mats is testing, but then I would assume he would do it at Ralph.
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Message 35653 - Posted 28 Jan 2007 6:59:36 UTC

Just a Bump.
Could it be made sticky.

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Message 35664 - Posted 28 Jan 2007 11:26:07 UTC - in response to Message ID 35653.

Just a Bump.
Could it be made sticky.



I hope not as there are already way to many stickies.

Also since it is only valid for a day or two before it is released in general it makes no sence. Really this one should have been deleted to stop confusion.
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Message 36630 - Posted 12 Feb 2007 21:52:12 UTC

We will be updating Rosetta@Home to 5.46 around 6pm PST today. You can download exectuables in advance at here. Since we have used UPX to compress the executables in the last couple releasees, we would like to ask your opinion on whether it is still necessary to send out release announcement in advance and if so, whether 6 hours in advance is enough for you to download the executables beforehand. Thanks.


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Message 36644 - Posted 13 Feb 2007 7:52:54 UTC - in response to Message ID 36630.
Last modified: 13 Feb 2007 7:53:51 UTC

We will be updating Rosetta@Home to 5.46 around 6pm PST today. You can download exectuables in advance at here. Since we have used UPX to compress the executables in the last couple releasees, we would like to ask your opinion on whether it is still necessary to send out release announcement in advance and if so, whether 6 hours in advance is enough for you to download the executables beforehand. Thanks.




I think for most people it is not so necessary, but for people that do have a lot of computers or netwroked over dial-up it does still take time, not so much in the downloading but in the getting each one setup for the new file.
The other benefit is for the people using client override files (such as 64bit client users wanting to run the 32bit client etc..
A good idea to save you some trouble would be to setup another news section or just use technical news, add and RSS feed to that. then you can announce a new version. A day+ would be better since 6hours there is a good chance they will be in bed, a lot are from Russia and surroundings or here in Europe where they could easily be on dial-up or have pay-as-you go style broadband.

Also in there you can explain a bit more about what the client does, you have the section so use it more :-)
Adding RSS means it can be easily monitored by the people that need it the most.
http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/rah_technical_news.php
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Message 36660 - Posted 13 Feb 2007 14:22:02 UTC

If people want more lead time, they simply maintain a larger cache. The new release has been posted already, but I've not requested a single WU since then, so I still have time to download "in advance" if I wish.

Just a thought, there ARE some files that the project downloads only once... would it be possible to break up the executable in a similar mannar? So you'd have a core of say 2/3rds of it which doesn't change very often? THAT would really cut the download size. Just breaking it in to 3-5 pieces would help a lot... as long as there's a way to refresh them when needed. Perhaps by changing the names? I'm really not familiar with how BOINC handles the files.
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Message 37224 - Posted 27 Feb 2007 0:09:32 UTC - in response to Message ID 36660.

If people want more lead time, they simply maintain a larger cache. The new release has been posted already, but I've not requested a single WU since then, so I still have time to download "in advance" if I wish.

Just a thought, there ARE some files that the project downloads only once... would it be possible to break up the executable in a similar mannar? So you'd have a core of say 2/3rds of it which doesn't change very often? THAT would really cut the download size. Just breaking it in to 3-5 pieces would help a lot... as long as there's a way to refresh them when needed. Perhaps by changing the names? I'm really not familiar with how BOINC handles the files.


The way to do this would be to page off parts of the program to .so / .dll files, making sure that the program knew to lok for them in the relevant BOINC directory / folder rather than in the system folder.

This is particularly suitable for Rosetta, where the programmers & scientists keep adding new code but almost never remove old code from the app. Each new feature would have its own .so or .dll

The app would need to know that it needed these extra files - or if you can't tell BOINC directly that an app needs a specific file then BOINC needs to be told that each task using that app needs the file(s) for the new shared lib(s).

And of course the .so / .dll files need to be "sticky"

And when a version of a .so or .dll file is superseded, at some stage the server needs to be told to tell clients to delete the obsolete version.

In my opinion this would be feasible. The first Rosetta version to be split in this way would save no download time at all, and might even suffer from bugs in the implemetntation of the devolvement into spearate libraries.

Once such teething troubles were solved on Ralph, then the next mainstream Rosetta would still not save any downloads, as that would be the one to introduce the new system to the mainstream users. The Rosetta release after that would be the first to see the benefit.

Rosetta versions would only load a stub executable, maybe one or two new .so / .dll files that had changed, but would not need to re-download any of the code in the unchanged .so / .dll files.

It is a fair amount of work for the programmers. It is something that would benefit some users, and not noticeably benefit others. Only the programmers can advise whether it would be a good use of their time.

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Message 37342 - Posted 3 Mar 2007 11:35:02 UTC

5.48 isn't available from the following:

http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/download/next_release/
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Message 37343 - Posted 3 Mar 2007 11:36:44 UTC - in response to Message ID 37342.

5.48 isn't available from the following:

http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/download/next_release/


It is however available here http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/download/
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